Why gun laws dont work

[Rukas]

Keep in mind guns are illegal in Australia.

Last week shooting at a club, I was there, we just left about 15 mins before it happened. http://www.urbanaustralia.com/community/content.php?t=61

Shooting outside bar last night, around the corner from previous shooting. http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22583115-5006301,00.html?from=mostpop

Shooting today at 3PM in the main shopping mall in the city, around the corner from my house, two blocks over from last nights shooting. http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22583783-5006301,00.html

So lets see what gun laws are doing in this country. Its stopping legitimate people from becoming gun owners for legal reasons, its stopping people from having guns to protect their families, and its making sure that the only people to have guns are going to use them to terrorize people. Seriously, its so easy to get a gun here if you have illegal connections, the only people being harmed by these laws are the law abiding citizens.

Ok ok, rant over.

 

[ARon]

It makes sense. The only people who will get a gun are ones who do it illegally and they will probably use it for illegal/bad shit cus that's their nature, I'm being stereotypical but whatever.

These are all connected right?

 

[Duke]

I don't think anyone with half a brain ever argued that gun restriction laws would ever stop the real criminals from shooting people...


It may, however, stop firearms from falling into the hands of 14 year old children who subsequently use it to kill half of their classmates...

 

[masta247]

I always wonder.. In Poland we have many criminals, many people getting into fights on the streets, sometimes stabbing each other with knifes, but we rarely hear about somebody shooting each other and if it happens it's mostly a gang war or something. Casual people just don't use guns here at all, even tho we have market places where you know you can buy guns for cheap.
Maybe that's also because there's a rule on "the streets" that guns are for pussies but I wonder why everybody respects that.

 

[ill-matic]

Keep in mind guns are illegal in Australia.

Last week shooting at a club, I was there, we just left about 15 mins before it happened. http://www.urbanaustralia.com/community/content.php?t=61

Shooting outside bar last night, around the corner from previous shooting. http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22583115-5006301,00.html?from=mostpop

Shooting today at 3PM in the main shopping mall in the city, around the corner from my house, two blocks over from last nights shooting. http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22583783-5006301,00.html

So lets see what gun laws are doing in this country. Its stopping legitimate people from becoming gun owners for legal reasons, its stopping people from having guns to protect their families, and its making sure that the only people to have guns are going to use them to terrorize people. Seriously, its so easy to get a gun here if you have illegal connections, the only people being harmed by these laws are the law abiding citizens.

Ok ok, rant over.

Their illegality is precisely what makes the accessibility so difficult. Furthermore, by eradicating guns you kind of phase out the whole gun-culture that's been instilled in the mind of people for generations...you take away guns, you effectively get rid of that "need" or mentality that it is your "right" to have a gun. On the whole, the relaxed nature of accessibility has caused major problems in the U.S - all you have to look at is the number of school shootings that occur. People as young as 14 are even in a position to go out and obtain a firearm - and that is just completely fucked up. The point is, people on the whole cannot be trusted with something like this. Sure there ARE law abiding citizens but how do you know who is who? You don't, and that is just a sacrifice that these people must make. In my opinion, it's not that much of a sacrifice, seeing as our society has no use for firearms.

 

[Rukas]

Aron, no they aren't connected. The second to maybe but not the first.

Illmatic, I do have a recreational use for firearms as a sport, and then also as self protection for my home and family.

 

[ill-matic]

Aron, no they aren't connected. The second to maybe but not the first.

Illmatic, I do have a recreational use for firearms as a sport, and then also as self protection for my home and family.

There are gun shops in Australia dude... not every single firearm has been banned.. there are some still available

 

[AmerikazMost]

These are the worst examples you could use for your argument.

Even if guns were legal to have, I can guarantee you wouldn't be able to carry them on you in public, let alone to a mall or a night club while consuming a lot of alcohol. So how does legalizing firearms help you there?

We had a debate in WoW. Look it up. Using regression analysis and some data from Britain (granted there were some potential flaws, as I pointed out), I showed that the prohibition on firearms had a negative and significant effect on reducing violent gun crimes.

If someone wants to harm someone, then they will find a way to do it, gun or not. Thus, legalizing guns and making them readily available just makes it easier for them to do it. Should we put guns in the hands of jealous husbands? Of belligerent binge drinkers? Of angry school kids?

You may think you're protecting your family, but you're just increasing the risk of a horrible accident or incident because of the presence of a deadly weapon.

 

[masta247]

Again I think it's just about mentality. If there's a lot of people thinking that using gun is normal then he will.
Where I live nobody uses guns even tho they are available, but people don't even consider using them. Poland is a country with probably most fist fights and it's really normal here, it's a way of solving problems for less intelligent people.
If they would think that shooting somebody is a better way then they would do it like they do it in America or other countries where people have similar mentality.

If whole community has opinion that guns are bad and it's not a option, that guns are for pussies etc. it would be okay but if they see on tv every week that somebody shot somebody else because of something stupid they start to think that it's normal and it's a good way of solving their problems.

 

[Synful*Luv]

There's always more crime in places where guns are illegal. In texas they are allowed to carry concealed weapons and i'm certain their crime rate is a lot lower than most places here in the States were you can not do such.

 

[SicC]

move to Texas gun laws don't exist.

pz

 

[PuffnScruff]

Their illegality is precisely what makes the accessibility so difficult. Furthermore, by eradicating guns you kind of phase out the whole gun-culture that's been instilled in the mind of people for generations...you take away guns, you effectively get rid of that "need" or mentality that it is your "right" to have a gun. On the whole, the relaxed nature of accessibility has caused major problems in the U.S - all you have to look at is the number of school shootings that occur. People as young as 14 are even in a position to go out and obtain a firearm - and that is just completely fucked up. The point is, people on the whole cannot be trusted with something like this. Sure there ARE law abiding citizens but how do you know who is who? You don't, and that is just a sacrifice that these people must make. In my opinion, it's not that much of a sacrifice, seeing as our society has no use for firearms.

you seem to be a little ignorant on a few things about u.s. gun laws.

1) a person under the age of 21 cannot legally purchase a hand gun

2)saying people cannot be trusted with guns is insane. their are 65million gun owners in the u.s. last time i checked their are not 100's of millions of deaths each year. the simple fact is crazy people do crazy things and you can't stop people whose brains have turned to worms from doing insane acts of violence. the wild west was an armed society and a law abiding and polite society.

it is a huge sacrafice because you are giving too much power and trust into your govt. if you want to that than that is your choice but i would never want my govt to have that much power. not until they have enough law enforcement officers for every single person or they start giving each citizen a body guard. until then i'll will take my own safety and security into my own hands. which i do. there is a reason why the framers of my country but the 2nd amendment following the 1st.

3) you are making it seem like guns are the reason for school shootings. there are many common factors in the school shootings in the u.s. which do include guns but also childre, schools, kids being bullied, and prescription medication.

Duane Morrison Platte Canyon High School shot and killed 1 girl and sexual assualted 6 others. Antidepressants found in his vehicle.

March 21 2005 Red Lake indian Reservation.

16 year old Jeff Weise under influance of Prozac killer 9 people and wounding 5 before comitting scicide

April 10 2001 Wahluke Wa.

16yr old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to school and held 23 students and 1 teacher hostage while high on Effexor

March 22 2001 El Cajon Ca.

18yr old Jason Hoffman open fire at his school wounding 5 He was on Effexor and Celexa

March 7 2000 Williamsport Pa.

14 yr old. Elizabeth Bush fired at fellow students wounding 1 She was on Prozac

May 20 1999 Conyers Ga.

15 year old TJ Solomon open fire and wounded 6 of his class mates He was on a mix of Antidepressants

Apr 20 1999 Columbine Colorado.

18 yr old Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killer 12 class mates a teacher and wounded 23

Eric was on Luvox Results of Dylan autopsy were never made public.

April 16 1999 Notus Idaho

15yr ols Shawn Cooper fired 2 shot gun rounds No one hit. He was on a mix of antidepressants

May 21 1998 Springfield Or.

15 yr old Kip Kinkel killed his parents then when to school and opened fire killing 2 and wounding 22 He was on Prozac

maybe we should stop giving kids powerful drugs.

There's always more crime in places where guns are illegal. In texas they are allowed to carry concealed weapons and i'm certain their crime rate is a lot lower than most places here in the States were you can not do such.

exactly. in illinois you cannot legally carry a firearm on you. the politicians that run illinois are very antigun and the crime from chicago has ruined it for the whole state. but i have no doubt that all the guns used in crime in places like east saint louis and chicago are illegal.

i believe it is vermont where you do not need a license to carry a firearm on you and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_&_Me
this is a very good documentary put together that disproves crap that was said in moore's bowling for columbine.

and just recently two different articles have come out from two people that say they were very antigun but have sinced change their minds and give great points on how gun control doesn't work
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orl-miket0407oct04,0,3733024.column?coll=orl_news_util

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/10/a-liberals-lame.html?loc=interstitialskip

 

[Duke]

^^ Maybe we should stop giving children powerful drugs AND powerful weapons? There's no way a 14 year old will be able to STAB half his class to death.

And comparing Vermont to Chicago is, well....a big difference?

 

[PuffnScruff]

i was comparing the state of illinois not allowing their citizens of that state to carry a concealed weapon and using vermont as a example of a state that does. i was pointing out that chicago and the gang related crimes in and around the city are almost the sole reason for antigun legislation in that state. in no were in my post did i compare the city of chicago to the state of vermont

nobody is giving guns to children unless it is their parents. if that parent isn't responible enough to teach their child the rights and wrongs of owning and using a firearm and keeping those firearms in a safe place then that parents shouldn't have kids.

a teenager might not be able to stab half their class to death but if you look at it from the perspective of antigunners then one death is too much. so you should get rid of all weapons with blades because saving just one life would be worth it, right? no matter how unreal the idea might be

 

[EDouble]

The Lot Of Situations People State To Justify The Bannings Are Just The Problems That They Wouldn't Want To Take Care Of Sober And Legalized

 

[Prize Gotti]

I always wonder.. In Poland we have many criminals, many people getting into fights on the streets, sometimes stabbing each other with knifes, but we rarely hear about somebody shooting each other and if it happens it's mostly a gang war or something. Casual people just don't use guns here at all, even tho we have market places where you know you can buy guns for cheap.
Maybe that's also because there's a rule on "the streets" that guns are for pussies but I wonder why everybody respects that.

the violence surrounding your country and especially the violence surroundy polish football is disturbing. All those Neo Nazi gangs as well, crazy shit man.

 

[Rukas]

These are the worst examples you could use for your argument.

Even if guns were legal to have, I can guarantee you wouldn't be able to carry them on you in public, let alone to a mall or a night club while consuming a lot of alcohol. So how does legalizing firearms help you there?

Because guns were specifically banned here after similar incidents in the past, and it obviously didnt work, so why keep them banned when it's stopping me from protecting my family against home invasions (a particular crime running rampant here).

We had a debate in WoW. Look it up. Using regression analysis and some data from Britain (granted there were some potential flaws, as I pointed out), I showed that the prohibition on firearms had a negative and significant effect on reducing violent gun crimes.

If someone wants to harm someone, then they will find a way to do it, gun or not. Thus, legalizing guns and making them readily available just makes it easier for them to do it. Should we put guns in the hands of jealous husbands? Of belligerent binge drinkers? Of angry school kids?

Then invest the money into proper gun laws. I grew up around fire arms and could shoot before I could ride a bike and never once have I wanted to misuse a firearm because I was properly educated in the matter.

Set up an organization that randomly checks peoples homes to make sure their fire arms are securily locked away in a safe out of the hands of children and make such checks a compulsory agreement for those obtaining a gun license, then actually enforce it.

In regards to jealous husbands, etc, they will find a way to harm their wives anyway. Perhaps having a gun in the home will prove to be a deterrent if she can get access to it?

You may think you're protecting your family, but you're just increasing the risk of a horrible accident or incident because of the presence of a deadly weapon.

I dont agree at all. Like I said, I grew up with guns in the home so I know, and each one was locked away in a safe. Gun in one safe, ammo in another safe in another room. And thats how it should be. I had more "accidents" with knives but never any with guns.

 

[masta247]

the violence surrounding your country and especially the violence surroundy polish football is disturbing. All those Neo Nazi gangs as well, crazy shit man.

yeah that's true and there are many more scary things but the thing is nobody shoots at each other.
Yes I often see people brawling outside even tho I live in a quite quiet neighborhood, I myself took a part in few fight but still those are just fist fights, in worst cases people fight with knifes or stuff they find on their way like trash cans etc but nobody uses guns. It's damn easy to get one, we've got a biggest european illegal market place where you can buy everything including guns, hand grenates (cheap, 50$ for one) and still nobody shoots at each other.

So again my point is it's about mentality and standards in different countries. I'm sure if people here would know that shooting somebody is an everyday thing they would do it as well. Fortunately using guns here for most people would be crossing a line in their mind created by society (which doesn't consider using guns as a way out of anything) and those people just don't cross it, they don't even think about it.

Also it's not about having a gun or being interested in it. Since I was like 3-4 years old I was interested in military, my whole childhood was about arms and bb guns I want to shoot in the future but I wouldn't ever shoot to a living man. That's a case of religion and beliefs too, people who don't believe that shooting somebody else is bad will probably simply do it for whatever the reason is. Most people don't do it because they are either afraid of jail or that it will come back to them (hell, bad karma etc.)

 

[AmerikazMost]

Because guns were specifically banned here after similar incidents in the past, and it obviously didnt work, so why keep them banned when it's stopping me from protecting my family against home invasions (a particular crime running rampant here).



Then invest the money into proper gun laws. I grew up around fire arms and could shoot before I could ride a bike and never once have I wanted to misuse a firearm because I was properly educated in the matter.

Set up an organization that randomly checks peoples homes to make sure their fire arms are securily locked away in a safe out of the hands of children and make such checks a compulsory agreement for those obtaining a gun license, then actually enforce it.

In regards to jealous husbands, etc, they will find a way to harm their wives anyway. Perhaps having a gun in the home will prove to be a deterrent if she can get access to it?



I dont agree at all. Like I said, I grew up with guns in the home so I know, and each one was locked away in a safe. Gun in one safe, ammo in another safe in another room. And thats how it should be. I had more "accidents" with knives but never any with guns.

What good is a gun for defense against home invasions if it is unloaded, locked away, and hidden?

 

[Bhuddahhoodlum]

I don't think anyone with half a brain ever argued that gun restriction laws would ever stop the real criminals from shooting people...


It may, however, stop firearms from falling into the hands of 14 year old children who subsequently use it to kill half of their classmates...

yeah, it'll help the crazier grown up pedophiles, religious fanatics, kidnappers, and deranged parents keep first dips on them.

not to mock, just something else to think about.