Why do people say biggie and pac is the greatest?

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

I think he reaches people who dont think about social issues, or even people who dont take education seriously. Obviously your not one of those people but I know for me coming out of High School the issues brought up in Pac's music and more so in his interviews, definately made me think. I can honestly say without being a Pac fan I probably wouldnt have read half the books I have or have certain points of view. He just made alot of sense to me.

Oh no, that's fine, I understand that.

My question wasn't really one I posed with the idea that he didn't affect people, but it was specifically aimed at particular posters who would vastly overestimate Tupac's influence with their whimsical comments & then fail to elaborate &/or back up their points.

 

[ArtsyGirl]

^
Testin em huh? Anywho.. Carry on

 

[Tonio1986]

Re: Why do people say biggie and pac is the greatest?

because they are fans, the fans are the "ppl", who say that. Not everybody. You hear it so often, cause they have the most fans.

 

[Hituup]

Oh no, that's fine, I understand that.

My question wasn't really one I posed with the idea that he didn't affect people, but it was specifically aimed at particular posters who would vastly overestimate Tupac's influence with their whimsical comments & then fail to elaborate &/or back up their points.

WOW, you are still on here talking like a wiz kid on a forum like after about one week. GET A LIFE. You are annoying.

 

[Hituup]

No, quality & quantity are two distinct entities.

And the mark of a truly quality song is it's replay value, which tends to be never-ending.



Recognized by who?

As soon as Biggie died, people looked to Jay.

And if you don't think I'm right, start a thread in Street Hop. We'll find the opinion of the masses parallels mine.

IT Doesn't matter how much you may like an artist's, you'll want more. The point is if an artists you favor has a song you are hooked to, you'll start to notice that this particular musician is lacking music and you may want more of that type of music you are hooked to from them. You can say they are distinctive or whatever but they are still related. If Makaveli, 7 day theory was Tupac's last album everyone on here would say damn, I wish he had more music because 2pac and his album was great. Well the same situation is applying to Biggie right now. SO QUANTITY AND QUANTITY MAY BE DISTINCTIVE FEATURES BUT THEY ALL RUN IN THE SAME FAMILY.

Please Biggie died in 1997 if I'm not correct. In 97 Jay-Z was around, but no one really noticed and or cared. He wasn't making any big moves that year. Puff Daddy and bad boy ran rap into the mainstream in 97 and the early 98 period up unitl DMX came out. DMX had brought NY back to the streets and Jay-Z was sort of like the in between when he came out. It wasn't until Jay-Z's 3rd album "Hard Knock Life" that he was seen as truly capable.

Even until that time up until 2003 Jay-Z wasn't even recepted on by many fans and alot of cats in the rap game. Besides that he was in the successful spot probably more than anyone, but he wasn't loved that much and was looked at as cocky. Nas was also in Jay-Z's way. And I remember people calling Jay-Z corny and etc. Those same people now who said he was corny then now like him suddenly. It wasn't until he retired that he got his proper due of respect.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

IT Doesn't matter how much you may like an artist's, you'll want more. The point is if an artists you favor has a song you are hooked to, you'll start to notice that this particular musician is lacking music and you may want more of that type of music you are hooked to from them. You can say they are distinctive or whatever but they are still related. If Makaveli, 7 day theory was Tupac's last album everyone on here would say damn, I wish he had more music because 2pac and his album was great. Well the same situation is applying to Biggie right now. SO QUANTITY AND QUANTITY MAY BE DISTINCTIVE FEATURES BUT THEY ALL RUN IN THE SAME FAMILY.

You said a whole lot of nothing here. Quality is not really related to quantity, & quantity is in no way related to quality.

Please Biggie died in 1997 if I'm not correct. In 97 Jay-Z was around, but no one really noticed and or cared. He wasn't making any big moves that year. Puff Daddy and bad boy ran rap into the mainstream in 97 and the early 98 period up unitl DMX came out. DMX had brought NY back to the streets and Jay-Z was sort of like the in between when he came out. It wasn't until Jay-Z's 3rd album "Hard Knock Life" that he was seen as truly capable.

Reasonable Doubt dropped in 1996. A classic album, that was embraced by the Hip Hop community. Every Hip Hop head knew of Jay at that time.

This part of your post is basically bullshit in regards to proving that Jay was only seen as top of NY after he'd dropped 8 albums.

It'd probably be best if you never tried to school me on Hip Hop.

Even until that time up until 2003 Jay-Z wasn't even recepted on by many fans and alot of cats in the rap game. Besides that he was in the successful spot probably more than anyone, but he wasn't loved that much and was looked at as cocky. Nas was also in Jay-Z's way. And I remember people calling Jay-Z corny and etc. Those same people now who said he was corny then now like him suddenly. It wasn't until he retired that he got his proper due of respect.

You mean "respected"?

Hmm, Jay has always had a lot of respect by the majority of the rap game. There are always going to be exceptions, but they were few & far between.

And perhaps he got more respect after he retired, it makes no difference to my inital point.

 

[Tonio1986]

it makes no difference to my inital point.

Your "initial" point is always the same. You hate ppl who think pac is the Goat. Simple said, but the truth. I never saw you hatin on somebody who is convinced that for example Rakim or Nas is the goat, why is that so? And why do you want board members let them see as clowns? You are the most arrogant member on this board!

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Your "initial" point is always the same. You hate ppl who think pac is the Goat. Simple said, but the truth. I never saw you hatin on somebody who is convinced that for example Rakim or Nas is the goat, why is that so? And why do you want board members let them see as clowns? You are the most arrogant member on this board!

My "initial point" was that Jay was on top of NY before 8 albums were dropped.

Hmm, it would be good if you learned to read.

Plus everything else you said & implied there is complete & utter bullshit

 

[Tonio1986]

My "initial point" was that Jay was on top of NY before 8 albums were dropped.

Hmm, it would be good if you learned to read.

Plus everything else you said & implied there is complete & utter bullshit

Yeah yeah everybody talks bullshit, but you, you are the best. Keep on attackin some board member and keep on writing 30 posts per day. Better would be to get a life, to get a job and friends, you internet gangster.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Yeah yeah everybody talks bullshit, but you, you are the best. Keep on attackin some board member and keep on writing 30 posts per day. Better would be to get a life, to get a job and friends, you internet gangster.

"attackin some board member"?

Go on, seriously, show me where I'm "attacking" board members?

And still, isn't it convenient how this post here overlooks the fact that I totally dismantled your last post with this line, "My "initial point" was that Jay was on top of NY before 8 albums were dropped.".

You made a comment of folly, & tried to hide behind some poor insults. Who's the "internet gangster" really?

 

[HiGhTillDeaTH]

a lot of worthless converstaions going on in here... its all opinion simplle as that

 

[Hituup]

My "initial point" was that Jay was on top of NY before 8 albums were dropped.

Hmm, it would be good if you learned to read.

Plus everything else you said & implied there is complete & utter bullshit

You know what you read what you want to read and see what you want to see. When did I say Jay-Z was on top of NY after 8 albums. Second of all Jay-Z's "Reasonable Doubt" album didn't even take off until years after the album's release. I mean look how long it took for that album to reach platinum success.

Also what I said or wanted to get across is that he was given his proper due or respect after 8 albums. Never did I once try to imply that he was only on top after 8 albums. Read well next time.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

You know what you read what you want to read and see what you want to see. When did I say Jay-Z was on top of NY after 8 albums. Second of all Jay-Z's "Reasonable Doubt" album didn't even take off until years after the album's release. I mean look how long it took for that album to reach platinum success.

You said this, "HELL, JAY-Z HAD 8 ALBUMS BEFORE HE WAS RECOGNIZED AT THE TOP OF NY."

And Reasonable Doubt was lauded by Hip Hop fans from it's release. Most people recognize that sales don't necesarily reflect how the Hip Hop community have received an album. Reasonable Doubt is one example of this, Illmatic is another. Both albums were received well by the Hip Hop community, but the sales do not reflect this.

Also what I said or wanted to get across is that he was given his proper due or respect after 8 albums. Never did I once try to imply that he was only on top after 8 albums. Read well next time.

You said this, "HELL, JAY-Z HAD 8 ALBUMS BEFORE HE WAS RECOGNIZED AT THE TOP OF NY."

You fucked up - case closed.

Think, type, remember & read well next time.

 

[Hellrazor1978]

You said this, "HELL, JAY-Z HAD 8 ALBUMS BEFORE HE WAS RECOGNIZED AT THE TOP OF NY."

And Reasonable Doubt was lauded by Hip Hop fans from it's release. Most people recognize that sales don't necesarily reflect how the Hip Hop community have received an album. Reasonable Doubt is one example of this, Illmatic is another. Both albums were received well by the Hip Hop community, but the sales do not reflect this.

I was listening to hip hop in 96', and was fully aware of what people thought was hot and what was not, and I will say this:

Reasonable Doubt was NOT critically acclaimed when it first came out. Nobody even started calling that album a classic until after Vol.2 came out, because Jay went super commercial and people felt like they had to give Jay his "mandatory" classic album, so they started calling RD a classic. In 96', when it first dropped, people werent feelin it like that. Yea, cats thought he was nice but he wasnt gettin the love that Nas, Big, or Pac was...not even close. Dude was definatly living in their shadows.

In most "best of 96' lists", you didnt see Reasonable Doubt on there. Almost every list had All Eyez On Me, The Score, It Was Written, Muddy Waters, and Ironman along with a few others.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

Reasonable Doubt was NOT critically acclaimed when it first came out. Nobody even started calling that album a classic until after Vol.2 came out, because Jay went super commercial and people felt like they had to give Jay his "madatory" classic album, so they started calling RD a classic. In 96', when it first dropped, people werent feelin it like that. Yea, cats thought he was nice but he wasnt gettin the love that Nas, Big, or Pac was. Dude was definatly living in their shadows.

It was well received by the Hip Hop community, nobody said it was instantly labeled a classic.

And no, if you listen to the album, Reasonable Doubt isn't labeled a classic by most because it's "mandatory" for Jay to have one, but because it's an album of high quality.

Nobody said he was getting "the love that Nas, Big or Pac was". Everything that was being said was working towards the point of how he was perceived after Big died, at which point Tupac was already dead too.

In most "best of 96' lists", you didnt see Reasonable Doubt on there. Almost every list had All Eyez On Me, The Score, It Was Written, Muddy Waters, and Ironman along with a few others.

How many "best of '96 lists" did you see?

 

[Hellrazor1978]

It was well received by the Hip Hop community, nobody said it was instantly labeled a classic.

And no, if you listen to the album, Reasonable Doubt is't labeled a classic by most because it's "mandatory", but because it's an album of high quality.

Nobody said he was getting "the love that Nas, Big or Pac was". Everything that was being said was working towards the point of how he was perceived after Big died, at which point Tupac was already dead too.

my point was, it was not an album that was at the top of every "best of 96'" list.....The Score, AEOM, and It Was Written all got much more love than RD did. People werent feelin it like that yet.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

my point was, it was not an album that was at the top of every "best of 96'" list.....The Score, AEOM, and It Was Written all got much more love than RD did. People werent feelin it like that yet.

Maybe so, that's a valid opinion but it doesn't really add nor take away from anything that's been said.

 

[Hituup]

You said this, "HELL, JAY-Z HAD 8 ALBUMS BEFORE HE WAS RECOGNIZED AT THE TOP OF NY."

And Reasonable Doubt was lauded by Hip Hop fans from it's release. Most people recognize that sales don't necesarily reflect how the Hip Hop community have received an album. Reasonable Doubt is one example of this, Illmatic is another. Both albums were received well by the Hip Hop community, but the sales do not reflect this.



You said this, "HELL, JAY-Z HAD 8 ALBUMS BEFORE HE WAS RECOGNIZED AT THE TOP OF NY."

You fucked up - case closed.

Think, type, remember & read well next time.

ONCE AGAIN YOU DIDN'T READ CORRECT. LET ME PASTE IT BACK UP HERE FOR YOU;

BENEATH


Also what I said or wanted to get across is that he was given his proper due or respect after 8 albums. Never did I once try to imply that he was only on top after 8 albums. Read well next time.

 

[CalcuoCuchicheo]

You said that Jay had to drop 8 albums before he was top of NY. Then you say that you never implied that he was only top of NY after 8 albums.

Do you see the constrast here?

 

[Pittsey]

How did this turn into a Jay-Z thread. Start a new thread in streethop about Jay.

Closed. I hate Biggie/2pac comparison threads anyway. And this 1 has run it's course.