Janitors and PhDs.
- Thread starter dilla
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Graduating from a university doesn't by itself mean that you have "the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree" and most of all that skill isn't usually enough at all to find a proper job.
Also most people study stupid things that won't give you a great job unless you're really great at it. Skill is important while some majors that demand memorization are barely needed these days.
There are people who love (for example) philosophy but only some of them will find a proper job, while the rest probably study it because they know that they couldn't handle more demanding studies but want to have a degree, they are not good at it too and they usually end up with shitty jobs.
Then there are people with MBAs who can't find a proper job - there are just people who are predisposed to do simple jobs, nothing more yet they want to study because it makes them feel less stupid. They are the most dangerous because they sometimes actually find jobs that often require responsibility.
Also most people study stupid things that won't give you a great job unless you're really great at it. Skill is important while some majors that demand memorization are barely needed these days.
There are people who love (for example) philosophy but only some of them will find a proper job, while the rest probably study it because they know that they couldn't handle more demanding studies but want to have a degree, they are not good at it too and they usually end up with shitty jobs.
Then there are people with MBAs who can't find a proper job - there are just people who are predisposed to do simple jobs, nothing more yet they want to study because it makes them feel less stupid. They are the most dangerous because they sometimes actually find jobs that often require responsibility.
There's no such thing as "studying stupid things" at a university. That's like saying having knowledge is stupid, which well, is a stupid idea to have. But of course, a quantitative major would say so. At least we have the pleasure of seeing you backpedal on your thinking every once in a while in humanities debates.
I won't backpedal here. We're not talking about knowledge. On average some degrees will make much more sense over others as far as career is concerned.
It's something that happens with almost all of my fellow liberal art student friends too. These are typical studies that you either do just out of interest or desperation to get a degree the easiest way.
You can study it/law/medicine and fail as well as study philosophy and fail but the first one will make more sense if you don't want to end as a pizza delivery guy. You can also study at a shithole university and nothing but extraordinary talent will help you but still the point remains.
It's something that happens with almost all of my fellow liberal art student friends too. These are typical studies that you either do just out of interest or desperation to get a degree the easiest way.
You can study it/law/medicine and fail as well as study philosophy and fail but the first one will make more sense if you don't want to end as a pizza delivery guy. You can also study at a shithole university and nothing but extraordinary talent will help you but still the point remains.
But that's not what your argument was. The problem with that statement is that it makes several assumptions that are not applicable to every student and every degree. What makes sense when it comes to having a career? What's a successful career? Money? Recognition? Groupie head (lawl)? See what I'm saying? It also makes the false assumption that all people choose to pursue a degree based on career prospects. Some people, and I know a post-communist Polish kid may have a hard time to understand, choose a degree of study so that they can learn and be educated and able to engage in civic debate. They don't necessarily see dollar signs every time they pick up a book.
As far as the original post is concerned, there's a lot of good comments in the comment section of the article. I don't see the need to say the same shit so just read the comments.
As far as the original post is concerned, there's a lot of good comments in the comment section of the article. I don't see the need to say the same shit so just read the comments.
It is exactly what my argument was.
Yes and I don't mean a specific job - I mean any job you'd enjoy.
With some majors the amount of jobs you could pick from is really smaller. There's also graduates/workers needed ratio in every field and some get extremely overcrowded, at least here: For example amongst people who finish sociology or pedagogy very few people are lucky enough to do anything related to their studies. And huge amounts of people study that.
If you're fine with having pleasure during your studies and then take pride that you are able to quote every significant philosopher while working as a Janitor (which was what that article meant to me) then fine.
In my opinion studying for knowledge is very cool but in some cases it's not helping to significantly build your career. Why not be smart while picking your major and then think about pleasure with second major? Or something along those lines. Unless you're fine with "anobody can do it" jobs.
Yes and I don't mean a specific job - I mean any job you'd enjoy.
With some majors the amount of jobs you could pick from is really smaller. There's also graduates/workers needed ratio in every field and some get extremely overcrowded, at least here: For example amongst people who finish sociology or pedagogy very few people are lucky enough to do anything related to their studies. And huge amounts of people study that.
If you're fine with having pleasure during your studies and then take pride that you are able to quote every significant philosopher while working as a Janitor (which was what that article meant to me) then fine.
In my opinion studying for knowledge is very cool but in some cases it's not helping to significantly build your career. Why not be smart while picking your major and then think about pleasure with second major? Or something along those lines. Unless you're fine with "anobody can do it" jobs.
I agree with Masta here. In my opinion, an Arts degree is a waste of time. Sure you might have more knowledge at your disposal but the reality of it is no one outside of an extremely small and select circle cares if you can analyze how historical events in pre-industrailized Russia led to the rise of communism. So at the end of it, you have much more knowledge at hand, but no new skills at hand.
As a History major, that's plain foolishness. Like philosophy, history refines analytical skills. Just because you learn about treaties and wars for example (which is a very small part of it) that doesn't mean there are no jobs out there because you dealt with historiographical issues. As you said, you can use it to get into law, but not only that - many history grads head out and take positions within the government, educational system, NGOs and even counseling.
I despise this uncreative, closed-minded thinking. Let me give you an example of a career.
So, let's say it's true that no one outside of a select few circles cares if you can analyze how historical events in pre-industrialized Russia led to the rise of communism. But let's say there's a Hollywood studio out there, or an independent studio, wanting to create a TV show about Communist Russia and they need experts on the matter. Whether that be to provide broad overall context or really specific details about specific periods of time. Now, expert knowledge on communist Russia is pretty fucking useful and in demand. That's just one example off the top of my head.
Now, on to a more broad point. Mechanization and automation of labor has largely rendered traditional skills obsolete. But not only traditional skills, the new-age skills in IT, while very useful, are still not the be all end all of successful careers. An Arts degree or Pol Sci degree or History degree might not give you the skills necessary to write code, but they help you to develop analytical skills and how to THINK critically and creatively. Having the ability to DO something with the product created by skillful people is just as important, if not more, than being able to create the product. There's the execution part of it. Anyway, in the US, only something like 30% of people get a job in the major that they studied in college. I know a guy who has a bachelor's in history and works in marketing at Starbucks HQ.
The problem is many students put themselves in a box and limit themselves by the degree they attained. Not only that, they have their asshole peers, like those in the sciences, who put them in a box as well.
So, let's say it's true that no one outside of a select few circles cares if you can analyze how historical events in pre-industrialized Russia led to the rise of communism. But let's say there's a Hollywood studio out there, or an independent studio, wanting to create a TV show about Communist Russia and they need experts on the matter. Whether that be to provide broad overall context or really specific details about specific periods of time. Now, expert knowledge on communist Russia is pretty fucking useful and in demand. That's just one example off the top of my head.
Now, on to a more broad point. Mechanization and automation of labor has largely rendered traditional skills obsolete. But not only traditional skills, the new-age skills in IT, while very useful, are still not the be all end all of successful careers. An Arts degree or Pol Sci degree or History degree might not give you the skills necessary to write code, but they help you to develop analytical skills and how to THINK critically and creatively. Having the ability to DO something with the product created by skillful people is just as important, if not more, than being able to create the product. There's the execution part of it. Anyway, in the US, only something like 30% of people get a job in the major that they studied in college. I know a guy who has a bachelor's in history and works in marketing at Starbucks HQ.
The problem is many students put themselves in a box and limit themselves by the degree they attained. Not only that, they have their asshole peers, like those in the sciences, who put them in a box as well.
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