Rukas exposed; beef related.
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The execution of Jews was an accepted part of Nazi protocol. Killing to survive and wiping out other clans, individuals or groups that cause a threat, is a natural part of the animal kingdom and life for many species. Luckily humans realize this is wrong and choose to at least attempt to live better lives; that is what makes us human.
Just because it accepted by you does not mean it is morally right.
Just because it accepted by you does not mean it is morally right.
better late than never.
I love you Chronic. 
This is true.
People can eat meat if they want to, but don't fucking try and give me any excuses in a pathetic attempt to justify something that is 100%, absolutely, inherently wrong. Those people are only trying to cover up their own selfishness. Well guess what, carcass eaters? You ARE selfish. And you are morally wrong. If you don't have a problem with that, that's fine. Admit it. Don't dodge around the issue with your bitch ass wack ass excuses.
The nail has been hit on the head. This is what I've said from jump. You have a choice. Pick the compassionate one, or pick the detrimental one. Those are the only two options. You can be Oscar Schindler, or you can be Adolf Hitler. Make your choice.
"Quite" cruel is very much an understatement. Basically what you're saying is: I don't care about anything except for the fact that meat tastes good. Why not just stop there? Why try and give reasons to support your decision, which isn't based on reason but pure selfish enjoyment? To me that's just trying to find excuses to suit your own needs. "I don't care about animal suffering because I get something out of it". You've made your point and most sane people will know not to argue with your ideals. It's like if some whore goes around fucking married men. Sure she can say "hey it's my right, it's the way of the world etc etc." but why not be truthful and end all discussion and say "I'm a selfish whore and I only care about getting mine".
The only reason why people choose to ignore morals when it comes to animals is because they can't talk back. Pretty much everyone is this thread is saying "it's the way of the world" and I would respect that somewhat if people actually lived by those rules but they don't. And practically no one would want to live by those rules. There would be no legal system, there would be no such thing as human rights. Now if you'd be happy to live under the circumstances where someone can walk into your house, rape your mother, kill your father, eat your pet, piss on your curtains and then set your house on fire without any legal repercussions, sure I'll accept your reasoning. But until people stop demanding that they have rights and completely irradicate all morals, it's complete and utter self-serving bullshit.
If you need to eat meat in order to live, it's fine. That is the way of the world. But that's not how it is at all. There's only a minority of people who eat meat in order to survive, the rest eats it because it tastes good period. Besides that, meat isn't just a part of our diet, it's the main part of our diet. And we don't eat it every now and then, we eat it every damn day.
If you truly think it's alright to eat animals then go for it but at least have the decency to eat it sparsely (no more than 3 times a week) and buy biological meat.
I honestly can't respect any person that thinks it's okay to subject animals to incredibly cruel treatment just so you can enjoy a certain food for 5 minutes per day. I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over people like that dying. The only acceptable answer I can think of for a person to eat meat while he knows he's financially supporting the inhumane cruelty of animals is "a single vegetarian doesn't make the slightest of difference so why cut something out of my life when it doesn't change anything?". It's not an ideal way to live since it means bad things won't change but at least it's valid.
By the way I agree with the holier-than-thou attitude. But there's a difference between a person feeling holier-than-thou because they don't do drugs and someone feeling "better" than someone else because they don't aid in the cruel ritual slaughtering of living creatures. There's also a difference between thinking you're better than someone because YOU are special and thinking you're better than someone because THEY're retarded. For example I look down on rapists because rape is bad. But I don't think I'm "good" because I've never raped someone, I'd consider myself normal. I'm only 'better' because they're worse.
EDIT: A question to the people that eat meat because it's "the way of the world". Would you still eat meat if it tasted like shit? If you answer 'no' to that question you shouldn't probably re-consider your argument.
EDIT 2: Dukeje, lijkt misschien of ik pissig ben, maar ik hou van je
The only reason why people choose to ignore morals when it comes to animals is because they can't talk back. Pretty much everyone is this thread is saying "it's the way of the world" and I would respect that somewhat if people actually lived by those rules but they don't. And practically no one would want to live by those rules. There would be no legal system, there would be no such thing as human rights. Now if you'd be happy to live under the circumstances where someone can walk into your house, rape your mother, kill your father, eat your pet, piss on your curtains and then set your house on fire without any legal repercussions, sure I'll accept your reasoning. But until people stop demanding that they have rights and completely irradicate all morals, it's complete and utter self-serving bullshit.
If you need to eat meat in order to live, it's fine. That is the way of the world. But that's not how it is at all. There's only a minority of people who eat meat in order to survive, the rest eats it because it tastes good period. Besides that, meat isn't just a part of our diet, it's the main part of our diet. And we don't eat it every now and then, we eat it every damn day.
If you truly think it's alright to eat animals then go for it but at least have the decency to eat it sparsely (no more than 3 times a week) and buy biological meat.
I honestly can't respect any person that thinks it's okay to subject animals to incredibly cruel treatment just so you can enjoy a certain food for 5 minutes per day. I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over people like that dying. The only acceptable answer I can think of for a person to eat meat while he knows he's financially supporting the inhumane cruelty of animals is "a single vegetarian doesn't make the slightest of difference so why cut something out of my life when it doesn't change anything?". It's not an ideal way to live since it means bad things won't change but at least it's valid.
By the way I agree with the holier-than-thou attitude. But there's a difference between a person feeling holier-than-thou because they don't do drugs and someone feeling "better" than someone else because they don't aid in the cruel ritual slaughtering of living creatures. There's also a difference between thinking you're better than someone because YOU are special and thinking you're better than someone because THEY're retarded. For example I look down on rapists because rape is bad. But I don't think I'm "good" because I've never raped someone, I'd consider myself normal. I'm only 'better' because they're worse.
EDIT: A question to the people that eat meat because it's "the way of the world". Would you still eat meat if it tasted like shit? If you answer 'no' to that question you shouldn't probably re-consider your argument.
EDIT 2: Dukeje, lijkt misschien of ik pissig ben, maar ik hou van je
This is true.
People can eat meat if they want to, but don't fucking try and give me any excuses in a pathetic attempt to justify something that is 100%, absolutely, inherently wrong. Those people are only trying to cover up their own selfishness. Well guess what, carcass eaters? You ARE selfish. And you are morally wrong. If you don't have a problem with that, that's fine. Admit it. Don't dodge around the issue with your bitch ass wack ass excuses.
The nail has been hit on the head. This is what I've said from jump. You have a choice. Pick the compassionate one, or pick the detrimental one. Those are the only two options. You can be Oscar Schindler, or you can be Adolf Hitler. Make your choice.
The problem is morals aren't objective. You expect everyone to conform to your idea of what is good morals but the reality is most of us don't really care if an animal have to die in order to feed us. It's not a moral issue to most of the world and it hasn't been for as long as humans have existed. So why should we care if it makes you feel bad?
Yes, I like many others never really gave it much thought but it recently dawned on me.
To be honest Ive never been happier nor have I eaten healthier. By not wanting to eat meat I have eliminated a lot of junk food from my diet, I eat more vegetables and fruits now, and my meals are more varied, interesting and healthy.
In my experience at least, it is healthier for me to be vegetarian than it is to eat meat, what I am saying basically in the context of recent threads, is that I will "survive" better on a vegetarian diet. So saying that eating meat is healthy, natural, good for me, etc etc, at least in my case and I say my case because I refuse to speak for others, is wrong.
My health and subsequently my life style benefits from this dietary choice, as does the well being of animals whom I choose not to be involved with their slaughter. My body feels fresher and better as does my conscience.
I really have NO argument for eating meat or why meat would benefit my life. None at all.
To be honest Ive never been happier nor have I eaten healthier. By not wanting to eat meat I have eliminated a lot of junk food from my diet, I eat more vegetables and fruits now, and my meals are more varied, interesting and healthy.
In my experience at least, it is healthier for me to be vegetarian than it is to eat meat, what I am saying basically in the context of recent threads, is that I will "survive" better on a vegetarian diet. So saying that eating meat is healthy, natural, good for me, etc etc, at least in my case and I say my case because I refuse to speak for others, is wrong.
My health and subsequently my life style benefits from this dietary choice, as does the well being of animals whom I choose not to be involved with their slaughter. My body feels fresher and better as does my conscience.
I really have NO argument for eating meat or why meat would benefit my life. None at all.
It's not an excuse unless you are a creature of no morals. You're obviously not though so the argument doesn't work. I've explained this in further detail in previous posts.
Exactly, in a survival situation it's every beast for themselves. But we're not exactly at risk of being overrun by armies of cows, pigs and chicken (although that would be awesome). I do have to admit that The Battle of the Supermarket is of epic proportions. "The battle-seasoned hunter managed to defeat the evil that is the vegetarian section and finally made his way to the meat section where he feasted on meat, blood and wenches of both sexes". There's lasers in there too somewhere.
Which is why I stopped killing bugs. I literally wouldn't hurt a fly (I'd kick your ass though and then pound it with my manmeat) although I hate insects. "It's incredibly hard" is not an excuse. Also it's not that hard. Eat smaller portions of meat, only 3 times a week and only eat it at dinner. That would cut down the meat industry quite a bit. It's not like the transition needs to happen overnight either, it definitely has to be a gradual process. But in order to start that process you actually need to do something, not just say "it's so hard" and not try.
Yes one person doesn't make a difference but like S O F I said if no one attempts to make a difference, nothing will change. I don't blame you but it's not exactly admirable either. I try to live life like I feel it should be lived, not how other people have made it to be.
Donating money to Africa doesn't make a difference in the larger sense either but would you call it a waste of money if you made a difference in even one person's life?
And it's not like you actually need to make an effort. Either you cause the problem, you solve the problem or you don't do anything. By eating meat (unless it's organic) you're causing the problem, you're not being neutral. It sucks but I think it sucks just a little bit more for the animals.
I actually think that's the furthest from the truth you can get. You can't say animals "allow" anything because they don't have the intelligence to make choices. Allowing something means you have the power to disallow it, which animals don't. They were forced.
"Winning" from animals isn't anything to be proud of either, it just means you're not retarded. I swear if a cow every outsmartens me I'll cut off my dick.
"The species thrive" is reaaaaaaaaaally reaching. It's like being trapped in a lightless room the size of a closet for the rest of your life but the up-side is ... your freaking immortal!
Doesn't matter what humans did in the beginning either, it's 2008. It's not like our history is something to be proud of. People have been retards since the dawn of time and nothing has changed. Take heed only to the few individuals that are worthy.
Again that doesn't justify anything. Would that argument work for a slavemaster? "Hey I didn't bring them here, I just bought one. If I hadn't bought this slave someone else would have".
To reiterate S O F I, the points you have made were:
1. It's a hassle
2. Animals will die anyway, I won't make a difference
3. It's in my nature to eat meat
You're stating reasons why you and other people continue to eat meat but you're not stating reasons why it isn't wrong. Historically it makes sense that people eat meat, which is why I don't judge people that aren't vegetarians but just because it's a logical sequence of events doesn't make it justified.
Exactly, in a survival situation it's every beast for themselves. But we're not exactly at risk of being overrun by armies of cows, pigs and chicken (although that would be awesome). I do have to admit that The Battle of the Supermarket is of epic proportions. "The battle-seasoned hunter managed to defeat the evil that is the vegetarian section and finally made his way to the meat section where he feasted on meat, blood and wenches of both sexes". There's lasers in there too somewhere.
Which is why I stopped killing bugs. I literally wouldn't hurt a fly (I'd kick your ass though and then pound it with my manmeat) although I hate insects. "It's incredibly hard" is not an excuse. Also it's not that hard. Eat smaller portions of meat, only 3 times a week and only eat it at dinner. That would cut down the meat industry quite a bit. It's not like the transition needs to happen overnight either, it definitely has to be a gradual process. But in order to start that process you actually need to do something, not just say "it's so hard" and not try.
Yes one person doesn't make a difference but like S O F I said if no one attempts to make a difference, nothing will change. I don't blame you but it's not exactly admirable either. I try to live life like I feel it should be lived, not how other people have made it to be.
Donating money to Africa doesn't make a difference in the larger sense either but would you call it a waste of money if you made a difference in even one person's life?
And it's not like you actually need to make an effort. Either you cause the problem, you solve the problem or you don't do anything. By eating meat (unless it's organic) you're causing the problem, you're not being neutral. It sucks but I think it sucks just a little bit more for the animals.
I actually think that's the furthest from the truth you can get. You can't say animals "allow" anything because they don't have the intelligence to make choices. Allowing something means you have the power to disallow it, which animals don't. They were forced.
"Winning" from animals isn't anything to be proud of either, it just means you're not retarded. I swear if a cow every outsmartens me I'll cut off my dick.
"The species thrive" is reaaaaaaaaaally reaching. It's like being trapped in a lightless room the size of a closet for the rest of your life but the up-side is ... your freaking immortal!
Doesn't matter what humans did in the beginning either, it's 2008. It's not like our history is something to be proud of. People have been retards since the dawn of time and nothing has changed. Take heed only to the few individuals that are worthy.
Again that doesn't justify anything. Would that argument work for a slavemaster? "Hey I didn't bring them here, I just bought one. If I hadn't bought this slave someone else would have".
To reiterate S O F I, the points you have made were:
1. It's a hassle
2. Animals will die anyway, I won't make a difference
3. It's in my nature to eat meat
You're stating reasons why you and other people continue to eat meat but you're not stating reasons why it isn't wrong. Historically it makes sense that people eat meat, which is why I don't judge people that aren't vegetarians but just because it's a logical sequence of events doesn't make it justified.
Since it comes down to this I'll reply to this alone:
Is it morally wrong to eat meat? No, I do not believe so. Is the bio-industry morally wrong as an institution? Yes, I do believe so.
So I agree with the end result (eating meat) but I disagree with the means (industrial breeding).
Until there's a realistic chance of doing something about that, I'm not in the mood for all sorts of concessions and I'm certainly not going to feel guilty about it. Maybe that makes me "less moral" than some of you like to believe, really, I don't care that much about what other members of society think of my individual actions when I believe it's society as a whole that must be responsible for global phenomenons such as global warming, bio industry, world hunger, poverty, etc.
Fact is also that if you want to be mr. Principles and not touch any produce that ever somehow harmed an animal or a human, it'd become ridiculously hard to do your shoppig anymore.
Also, what about eating Argentinian steak for example? Is eating meat from animals that lived a normal, healthy life okay then?
Are your objections here strictly against eating meat or against eating meat from tortured animals? The second I can understand very well, the first I think is gay.
Is it morally wrong to eat meat? No, I do not believe so. Is the bio-industry morally wrong as an institution? Yes, I do believe so.
So I agree with the end result (eating meat) but I disagree with the means (industrial breeding).
Until there's a realistic chance of doing something about that, I'm not in the mood for all sorts of concessions and I'm certainly not going to feel guilty about it. Maybe that makes me "less moral" than some of you like to believe, really, I don't care that much about what other members of society think of my individual actions when I believe it's society as a whole that must be responsible for global phenomenons such as global warming, bio industry, world hunger, poverty, etc.
Fact is also that if you want to be mr. Principles and not touch any produce that ever somehow harmed an animal or a human, it'd become ridiculously hard to do your shoppig anymore.
Also, what about eating Argentinian steak for example? Is eating meat from animals that lived a normal, healthy life okay then?
Are your objections here strictly against eating meat or against eating meat from tortured animals? The second I can understand very well, the first I think is gay.
I see validitey in points above w/ allusion to my previous pieces, shit in Well 'thousands of years..' 
confused ago, people had to eat the meat" so will do that now
I see that shit however (the argument against that) however, like I said , theres alot of Other shit thats debated that I cant think of off top of my head now, where itslike some one says 'just because your able to do that Now doesnt make it right'
everythings got rights & wrongs that equal each other I think this part of defense is un neccesary because the same thought behind it is used for hypcrocicy occasionaly
confused ago, people had to eat the meat" so will do that nowI see that shit however (the argument against that) however, like I said , theres alot of Other shit thats debated that I cant think of off top of my head now, where itslike some one says 'just because your able to do that Now doesnt make it right'
everythings got rights & wrongs that equal each other I think this part of defense is un neccesary because the same thought behind it is used for hypcrocicy occasionaly
Second one I always object to, first only under certain circumstances. If there are no alternatives you're simply surviving. If there's an alternative you're killing something for the sake of enjoyment. That I always disagree with. Death is a such a huge part of our lives. Most people fear it, most people try to prolong it for as long as they can. We have laws against killing, just about every religion says it's wrong to kill. [too lazy to write more, just think of all the discussions about death/killing blabla] So why does the life of an animal get reduced to the taste of its meat? (no homo)
It can definitely be a hassle to look for "moral" food but if there was a higher lifeform than us on this earth I'd prefer if they went to some trouble not to torture, kill and eat me and my family. I give back the respect I demand. The world isn't here for me, I just happen to live in it.
A hassle or support animal cruelty? I'd gladly give up my life if it meant that animals would be left alone so it's not a difficult decision for me.
By the way, would you have a problem if someone stole your cat, killed it and ate it? If so, is the only reason you'd have a problem with it because it's your cat?
Oh and don't eat my guinea pigs
You may have their hollowed out carcasses when I'm through with my sick sexual games.
It can definitely be a hassle to look for "moral" food but if there was a higher lifeform than us on this earth I'd prefer if they went to some trouble not to torture, kill and eat me and my family. I give back the respect I demand. The world isn't here for me, I just happen to live in it.
A hassle or support animal cruelty? I'd gladly give up my life if it meant that animals would be left alone so it's not a difficult decision for me.
By the way, would you have a problem if someone stole your cat, killed it and ate it? If so, is the only reason you'd have a problem with it because it's your cat?
Oh and don't eat my guinea pigs
You may have their hollowed out carcasses when I'm through with my sick sexual games.This is true and I have no real argument against it, that animals are valued lower or not at all. Only thing I can think of is that they're used to feed humans, and one prefers it's own species over another, but even that is shaky.
Well, if you're really principal about it, it's more than a hassle. Even non-meat products are sometimes produced with the "help" of animal cruelty.
I do not view myself as "supporting animal cruelty" by buying meat from the supermarkets. Am I "supporting child labour" by buying a cheap t-shirt? Passively, yes, but certainly not actively nor morally. Big difference imo.
Well, if my cat was 100 miles from civilization and ran into a caveman and got eaten, it'd suck, it's still my cat and I love the bugger, but the caveman's reason was justified.
Although I kind of fail to see what this has to do with the discussion. Personally, I don't believe one can "own" an animal, although the law says otherwise. But I don't go around killing other people's cows or pigs for my meat, though.
No, I want the full monty.
Well, if you're really principal about it, it's more than a hassle. Even non-meat products are sometimes produced with the "help" of animal cruelty.
I do not view myself as "supporting animal cruelty" by buying meat from the supermarkets. Am I "supporting child labour" by buying a cheap t-shirt? Passively, yes, but certainly not actively nor morally. Big difference imo.
Well, if my cat was 100 miles from civilization and ran into a caveman and got eaten, it'd suck, it's still my cat and I love the bugger, but the caveman's reason was justified.
Although I kind of fail to see what this has to do with the discussion. Personally, I don't believe one can "own" an animal, although the law says otherwise. But I don't go around killing other people's cows or pigs for my meat, though.
Oh and don't eat my guinea pigs You may have their hollowed out carcasses when I'm through with my sick sexual games.
You may have their hollowed out carcasses when I'm through with my sick sexual games.
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