Please explain...

emking · Dec 22, 2005

I don't want to turn this into a discussion of bashing, insults and rants. I would really like to get some answers, and generate a real discussion. Especially since I was a Pac fan before I was an Em fan. But as a fan of numerous musicians, movies, TV shows, etc. etc. I am always fascinated when fan, simple fans, feel more intimately involved then those that actually are. Now this is obviously a testament to the intimate nature of art in its many forms, but the entire mission of FreeTupac.com is an abomination of the line between a celebrity and their private life.

It is beyond irrational for fans, who have only listened to someone's music, writings, acting, or whatever, to believe that they actually know someone better then their own mother, family, and friends. You all may be disgusted by Loyal To The Game, and genuinely believe that is a disgrace to what Tupac wanted to accomplish in his life. However, any logical thinking human being cannot actually believe that fans, who never spoke to the man, know anything about what he wanted.

Unless a webmaster wants to come forward and say that he was backstage with Tupac for 80% of his shows, had sleepovers with him when he was young, and, well, helped nurse Tupac from their breast, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that his message is being distorted. It is obviously lunacy, and bitterness from an unsolved murder of a brilliant, brilliant young man.

None of you know anything compared to Afeni Shakur. None of you know anything compared to Suge Knight. Or Dre. Or the entire Outlawz Crew. You are all outsiders who are looking in on the artwork of an intelligent man, but you cannot possibly believe that you definitively know for sure. Yes, it is very possible that Tupac never would've let LTTG be released. It is very possible that he never would've done tracks with Eminem. It is also possible that he never wanted any of the material that he didn't himself release to ever be release, regardless of the race of the Executive Producer.

It is shocking that 7 years of material got released which was questionable at best, but when Eminem gets his hands on an entire CD, his fans suddenly believe that his message is getting distorted. Unfortunately, it looks like every message that MLK Jr. ever tried to envision for whites and blacks has been entirely forgotten. How do you know that he wanted RU Still Down released, or Better Dayz, or Still I Rise, or Until The End of Time? Even though the discussion would've been an interesting one (Whether or not Pac ever wanted any of this after his death), the entire argument on FreeTupac.com is racially-motivated and dispicable.

Unfortunately, now that I have said that, any response or discussion of this interesting topic will be accusatory, unintelligent, and degrading. So please listen to me when I say this -- even though the beats and flow of LTTG, in my opinion, were awesome -- I found it interesting that they had shoutouts to Em, Shady, Obie Trice (of all people), G-Unit, etc. etc. Especially with Dre at the head of the tri-labels, and one of the only people that can speak on what Tupac actually wanted, I was shocked that that needed to be included. I also agree that even if Tupac would've been down with Eminem and done tracks with him (because in my opinion, Pac would've done tracks with anyone that talented), Tupac never would've said "this is my nigg@ Em on the motherfuckin' boards..." However, I don't fuckin' know. And if Afeni, Dre, and everyone else who actually knew the motherfucker was down with the project then who am I, and who are you to actually say you know best. It's simply a ridiculous argument. And finally, every damn rapper in the game (including The Game), like Ja Rule to even guys he beefed with like Nas, claims to be down with Pac.

Butt Rubber · Dec 22, 2005

please go jump off a bridge

bigmack · Dec 22, 2005

emking said:

you and jason G would make a beautiful couple :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Think_ThuGLiFE · Dec 22, 2005

2pac does not want his vocals streched and distored .. who would?

The beats on LTTG were ..ok i guess but the changing tempos are amature..

Rukas · Dec 22, 2005

emking said:

I was willing to say you were entitled to your opinion until that paragraph, EminemKing.

If you'd bothered to have read FreeTupac.com with an open mind you would see that it is about a lot more than just Eminem.

And how is the site racially-motivated? Are you going to sit there and tell me that I am racist and dont like white people? Ermmm news flash, I am white.

As for your argument about Afeni knowing better than us, ask yourself, does your mother know what you want more than you friends do? Sure she wants what is best for you, but in a motherly way, which isnt always what you want for yourself or what you are.

Regardless, even if Afeni knew exactly what Tupac wanted, as we have made clear with FreeTupac.com (once again had you read it you would have saved yourself the time of typing this up), that Afeni unfortunatly is not always in control of Pac music.

Put it this way, who do you think knows better, Tupac's legion of fans, or for example, a middle aged homosexual (I only mention this to illustrate how drastically they are from two different worlds) lawyer who admits she cant related to Tupac and was never a fan of his music?

That's because you are an Eminem fan and it was largely an Eminem album.

Why would Dre be one of the only people that could speak for Tupac? More so that his friends that share our views? Come on, Dre worked with Pac on two songs, and then was kicked out of Death Row and pubically ridiculed by Pac, why else do you think he had absolutly no involvment in the project?

The point isnt that they made Pac call Eminem a nigga, only a wigga would focus on that. "Oh he called us a nigga, cool!" Cant remember what movie that was from.

It is an issue, but the bigger point is that they cut and chopped his words to give a shout out to a man he never knew, giving the average Eminem fan the impression he was down with Pac, which he wasnt.

None of them cut 'Pac's words to give themselves shout outs.

If you cant see the difference, you truely are blind and I really feel sorry for you.

emking · Dec 22, 2005

If you'd bothered to have read FreeTupac.com with an open mind you would see that it is about a lot more than just Eminem.

I did read the entire site before posting my comments.

And how is the site racially-motivated? Are you going to sit there and tell me that I am racist and dont like white people? Ermmm news flash, I am white.

I believe it to be somewhat racially-motivated because many hardcore Tupac fans I know, were making this argument when RU Still Down was released. Not when Em got his hands on Pac's material. And many of the comments on the front-page mission on this site focus around Eminem.

As for your argument about Afeni knowing better than us, ask yourself, does your mother know what you want more than you friends do?

You make a generally strong point. Yes, Pac's friends in many, many ways know better then Afeni. My main point from my original post was that no one who created this site or posts here are anywhere near close to Tupac, or can even in the most loose definition of the word think that they are Pac's friends. You are fans. That's it.

Put it this way, who do you think knows better, Tupac's legion of fans...

Get real. You do not know Tupac. You do not know what he would've wanted.

I found it interesting that they had shoutouts to Em, Shady, Obie Trice (of all people), G-Unit, etc. etc.
That's because you are an Eminem fan and it was largely an Eminem album.

I didn't mean to use the word interesting. I meant interesting in the sense of the argument that this site is founded on. I didn't like that he/they distorted the vocals in that way. How many tracks is Eminem on (not producing!)? Cause if anything I found it to be a compilation album for other artists (Dido, Elton John, Outlawz, etc), which is another reason to be against the album which I don't find in any argument on the site.

Your Dre comment is well taken. They were very close friends, and had a huge falling out. Personally, I think it was all Suge, and that Pac would've acted differently in many levels if not for Suge's control. But again, I'm a fan, and that's entirely speculation.

The point isnt that they made Pac call Eminem a nigga, only a wigga would focus on that. "Oh he called us a nigga, cool!" Cant remember what movie that was from.

Insult me if you want, I could care less. But I took that quote directly off of FreeTupac.com main mission on your front page. I am not focusing on it. You are.

It is an issue, but the bigger point is that they cut and chopped his words to give a shout out to a man he never knew, giving the average Eminem fan the impression he was down with Pac, which he wasnt.

I am 90% with you. But any Eminem fan who thinks Pac is down with Em has a serious, well, continuity issue. And probably has an I.Q. of 50. Just as you speculate that Pac would ride against Em, I think Pac may have done tracks with Em...And for no other reason then he was a businessman, and would've known that one REAL track with the two of them would've made millions. But again, this is speculation, as is every single opinion that us FANS have.

None of them cut 'Pac's words to give themselves shout outs.

Ja never used a Pac sample? Wrong. They all have re-worked his vocals...not to the point that Eminem did in "Out on Bail." But I think he did that to show his production skill, then to get us to think Pac was down with him. We're not that stupid.

If you cant see the difference, you truely are blind and I really feel sorry for you.

Yeah, well, thank you for the reasonably civil post. I wanted an actual discussion minus the "go jump off a bridge" stupidity that so many of these forums provide. Which you main provide, and you made some points which made me think about the other side. Thanks.

Rukas · Dec 22, 2005

I have to run out the door, but I will quickly say this. The site is in no way racially motivated, I am white, why would I hate on a white man? Eminem's poor production work has nothing to do with color.

The site wasnt around since R U Still Down because HitEmUp was, now that we've lost that I started something new. That introduction was, if you remember, largely written in 2004 when LTTG first came out, and thus is focused on Eminem. As is stated, LTTG was "the straw that broke the camels back," because it took the disrespect to a whole nother level.

Regardless, Eminem is not the focus of the site, he is not the disease so to speak, he is a sign of it.

DeeezNuuuts83 · Dec 22, 2005

I wouldn't say that Pac fans, specifically the ones on this board, feel that they are more intimately involved than those actually involved with Pac's music. It's just that we, the fans who have been loyal since the early 1990s, have a reasonable level of expectations for Pac's music. Pac knew that his fans had expectations, and while he was alive he met and exceeded them.

Obviously with his death, Pac himself can't do that; it's up to those associated with Amaru Records overseeing his posthumous releases. But the reason why the powers that be remove certain rappers or replace sampled and/or interpolated beats with remixed beats is MONEY. Like any business, Amaru's primary objective is to make as much profit as possible, which is done through things like higher sales and lower costs; unfortunately Amaru focuses more on the latter of the two. And who does this money come from? Certainly not those involved with Pac's music. It comes from Pac fans--the CONSUMERS--who want a quality product in exchange for their $15. The money that Amaru pays to producers and other people involved came from the money that they made off of us from the previous albums.

That is why a lot of us hardcore Pac fans feel so involved. Partially because we are passionate about Pac's music, and partially because we want what we deserve (or pay for, if you want to be technical). And those involved aren't nearly as "intimately involved," otherwise we'd have ourselves truly worthy follow-ups to All Eyez on Me and the Makaveli album. In addition, it's damn near impossible to just look the other way as Amaru makes terrible business decisions regarding Pac's music from various aspects--musical, economical, marketability, etc.

I couldn't tell you how to conjure up an album that would guarantee five million sales, but I have gone through enough classes and seminars and listened to enough music as a consumer, the main person to be satisfied, to know a few things:

* Familiarity. Whenever you see that Mercedes-Benz font on TV or in a magazine ad, you know it's a Benz. When you see those five bars increasing in height, you know it's a Cingular commercial. When you see those white words in cursive over a red background, you know it's a Coca-Cola product. The popular "2Pac" logo used on the covers of Me Against the World and All Eyez on Me was a great logo, and it was recognized by people on the cover of R U Still Down. After that, they have been using a different 2Pac logo every album. It's true that 2Pac CDs will always be under "2Pac" or "Tupac" in the rap CD section, but when the average consumer is just walking by, he/she pretty much only stops when their attention is caught (perhaps through the recognition of something familiar) when they aren't already planning to look for that product.

* Marketability. 2Pac logo aside, the product must be presentable. I remember when I first saw the Still I Rise cover, I thought some idiot just slapped together some pictures and words on Paintbrush as a joke. And then on December 14th, 1999, I walked into Best Buy, disappointed to see such an ugly cover. And that week, it debuted on Billboard behind DMX's ...And Then There Was X, which had much better cover art. And after that, Amaru just used really weird fonts on the albums. I'm not saying that a better font would've lead to significantly greater sales, but they definitely half-assed too many Pac albums in some of the easiest areas.

* Investment. I can understand why Amaru would want to minimize their overhead costs through the disposal of original beats, many of which were sampled or interpolated, and the creation of newer beats that won't require the same clearances but may sound more "up-to-date," which might attract the average consumer that isn't a die-hard fan. However, you get what you pay for. For example, many American car manufacturers have invested very little money in research and development or quality materials. (Obviously, I'm quite a car guy, and if you're not, then the next few sentences might not make too much sense.) International car manufacturers have been dedicating tons of their own resources toward staying ahead of the game, and this is why they not only make better products but outsell American brands (especially GM). For a while, American car manufacturer's half-assing helped them make money with minimal overhead (think Still I Rise, Until the End of Time, Better Dayz), but the consumers started to realize that the product was only getting worse and worse (think Loyal to the Game) so they went elsewhere for their wants and needs. Basically, if Amaru wants to sell a lot, they might as well invest more money into their efforts which will lead to a better product and more sales, rather than ditching a perfectly fine OG beat (in many cases, but not all) and hiring some washed up producer (Johnny "J"... just my opinion) or some rapper-turned-producer who wants to do it for free but in reality is a hit-and-miss producer who usually misses, and misses bad. When viewing his producing skills, if Eminem were a quarterback, he'd be former Oakland Raider Rich Gannon in Superbowl XXXVII... sure, there were a few touchdowns, but he threw a Superbowl record five interceptions in that game... 48-21. It wasn't just a loss, it was a pure failure, mostly because of him. Maybe if the powers that be were willing to shell out another $25,000 or so, perhaps they could've gotten another DJ Quik or Scott Storch beat instead of 13 Eminem beats and sold another opening week's worth of records which definitely would've made up for the difference in cost.

* Promotion. Take Biggie's new Duets album. Before it was released, there were already more than two radio singles. A video was made. Diddy, a popular music mogul who knows business, is always shouting out the album in damn near every appearance he makes. The album is littered with tons of today's hottest artists, many of whom Biggie was down with. Amaru has burned bridges with too many of Pac's non-Outlaw friends in the music industry, so who is left to shout out Pac and promote him? The Outlawz? No wonder. (As a side note, I remember the Outlawz making a guest appearance in BET's Da Bassment, and Kastro was like, "Everybody, go buy the album, please. It sounded like he was going to cry.)

* Quality. If you're trying to create a masterpiece while pinching pennies and cutting corners, at least make a good product. And if it can't be done, then do what you have to do to put out quality, whether it is to cut your losses and get rid of your production, or, God forbid, drop some money for quality. Kind of like what we the consumers do when we go to the CD store, except we haven't been getting it.

If Amaru Records could do these things, we'd have a lot less to complain about and more to praise. One might argue that even with a better product we'd complain anyway like we did when the previous albums came out. I think not. Most people were very satisfied with the leaked songs from the Makaveli & Dillinger EP that Daz made with few complaints.

I really hope that Amaru never gives Eminem the opportunity to touch a single Pac track ever, especially after he made bland versions of those previously unreleased songs on the Resurrection soundtrack and after ruining almost an entire album of Pac material afterward. In all honesty, if I had to choose between Eminem and Lil Jon doing production... Lil Jon would win. His beats are at least at a fast enough tempo to be on pace with Pac's vocals and can be danced to; you can hardly even do the robot in slow motion to the majority of Eminem's beats.

ApacalypseNow · Dec 22, 2005

i agree none of us know the real 2pac, as only his fam did. us, the fans R just angry because we can't always have what we want.

emking · Dec 22, 2005

DeeezNuuutz83, very nice argument. And I actually agree with everything you've said, and you did it without a motivation of hatred toward a particular artist. Your car metaphor is very interesting, especially for anyone that does understand the INT vs. USA car market, because that really does correlate to Pac's music post-1996. The webmasters should cut and paste your argument and put it on the front page as it more accurately articulates what any Pac has has felt, really, since All Eyez On Me. Personally, I think Pac got distracted with his own music since and never got the chance to get re-focused.
Ditto, on never letting Em touch another track. Not because I'm not an Eminem fan. But I'm a pre-Em-sell-out fan, and I don't know when exactly he sold out. But FACK? When I'm Gone? Shack That Ass? Curtain Call is the first Em CD I didn't buy, and won't buy. And if this is what he has become, he shouldn't be allowed near a booth, period.
Does anyone think that the quality of Pac albums is diminishing because there isn't much left to put out? I mean, is it really as much Em's production as it is continually trying to make money off of old stuff -- and trying to remake that old stuff to sound new. And then repackage an isolated verse with a sung chorus by an artist, and a rap by a different rapper? I ask that because that was my disappointment with the last few albums.

FroDawgg · Dec 22, 2005

emking, i applaud you. speak the word, brother.

Nick · Dec 22, 2005

DeeezNuuuts83 said:

I wouldn't say that Pac fans, specifically the ones on this board, feel that they are more intimately involved than those actually involved with Pac's music. It's just that we, the fans who have been loyal since the early 1990s, have a reasonable level of expectations for Pac's music. Pac knew that his fans had expectations, and while he was alive he met and exceeded them.

Obviously with his death, Pac himself can't do that; it's up to those associated with Amaru Records overseeing his posthumous releases. But the reason why the powers that be remove certain rappers or replace sampled and/or interpolated beats with remixed beats is MONEY. Like any business, Amaru's primary objective is to make as much profit as possible, which is done through things like higher sales and lower costs; unfortunately Amaru focuses more on the latter of the two. And who does this money come from? Certainly not those involved with Pac's music. It comes from Pac fans--the CONSUMERS--who want a quality product in exchange for their $15. The money that Amaru pays to producers and other people involved came from the money that they made off of us from the previous albums.

That is why a lot of us hardcore Pac fans feel so involved. Partially because we are passionate about Pac's music, and partially because we want what we deserve (or pay for, if you want to be technical). And those involved aren't nearly as "intimately involved," otherwise we'd have ourselves truly worthy follow-ups to All Eyez on Me and the Makaveli album. In addition, it's damn near impossible to just look the other way as Amaru makes terrible business decisions regarding Pac's music from various aspects--musical, economical, marketability, etc.

I couldn't tell you how to conjure up an album that would guarantee five million sales, but I have gone through enough classes and seminars and listened to enough music as a consumer, the main person to be satisfied, to know a few things:

* Familiarity. Whenever you see that Mercedes-Benz font on TV or in a magazine ad, you know it's a Benz. When you see those five bars increasing in height, you know it's a Cingular commercial. When you see those white words in cursive over a red background, you know it's a Coca-Cola product. The popular "2Pac" logo used on the covers of Me Against the World and All Eyez on Me was a great logo, and it was recognized by people on the cover of R U Still Down. After that, they have been using a different 2Pac logo every album. It's true that 2Pac CDs will always be under "2Pac" or "Tupac" in the rap CD section, but when the average consumer is just walking by, he/she pretty much only stops when their attention is caught (perhaps through the recognition of something familiar) when they aren't already planning to look for that product.

* Marketability. 2Pac logo aside, the product must be presentable. I remember when I first saw the Still I Rise cover, I thought some idiot just slapped together some pictures and words on Paintbrush as a joke. And then on December 14th, 1999, I walked into Best Buy, disappointed to see such an ugly cover. And that week, it debuted on Billboard behind DMX's ...And Then There Was X, which had much better cover art. And after that, Amaru just used really weird fonts on the albums. I'm not saying that a better font would've lead to significantly greater sales, but they definitely half-assed too many Pac albums in some of the easiest areas.

* Investment. I can understand why Amaru would want to minimize their overhead costs through the disposal of original beats, many of which were sampled or interpolated, and the creation of newer beats that won't require the same clearances but may sound more "up-to-date," which might attract the average consumer that isn't a die-hard fan. However, you get what you pay for. For example, many American car manufacturers have invested very little money in research and development or quality materials. (Obviously, I'm quite a car guy, and if you're not, then the next few sentences might not make too much sense.) International car manufacturers have been dedicating tons of their own resources toward staying ahead of the game, and this is why they not only make better products but outsell American brands (especially GM). For a while, American car manufacturer's half-assing helped them make money with minimal overhead (think Still I Rise, Until the End of Time, Better Dayz), but the consumers started to realize that the product was only getting worse and worse (think Loyal to the Game) so they went elsewhere for their wants and needs. Basically, if Amaru wants to sell a lot, they might as well invest more money into their efforts which will lead to a better product and more sales, rather than ditching a perfectly fine OG beat (in many cases, but not all) and hiring some washed up producer (Johnny "J"... just my opinion) or some rapper-turned-producer who wants to do it for free but in reality is a hit-and-miss producer who usually misses, and misses bad. When viewing his producing skills, if Eminem were a quarterback, he'd be former Oakland Raider Rich Gannon in Superbowl XXXVII... sure, there were a few touchdowns, but he threw a Superbowl record five interceptions in that game... 48-21. It wasn't just a loss, it was a pure failure, mostly because of him. Maybe if the powers that be were willing to shell out another $25,000 or so, perhaps they could've gotten another DJ Quik or Scott Storch beat instead of 13 Eminem beats and sold another opening week's worth of records which definitely would've made up for the difference in cost.

* Promotion. Take Biggie's new Duets album. Before it was released, there were already more than two radio singles. A video was made. Diddy, a popular music mogul who knows business, is always shouting out the album in damn near every appearance he makes. The album is littered with tons of today's hottest artists, many of whom Biggie was down with. Amaru has burned bridges with too many of Pac's non-Outlaw friends in the music industry, so who is left to shout out Pac and promote him? The Outlawz? No wonder. (As a side note, I remember the Outlawz making a guest appearance in BET's Da Bassment, and Kastro was like, "Everybody, go buy the album, please. It sounded like he was going to cry.)

* Quality. If you're trying to create a masterpiece while pinching pennies and cutting corners, at least make a good product. And if it can't be done, then do what you have to do to put out quality, whether it is to cut your losses and get rid of your production, or, God forbid, drop some money for quality. Kind of like what we the consumers do when we go to the CD store, except we haven't been getting it.

If Amaru Records could do these things, we'd have a lot less to complain about and more to praise. One might argue that even with a better product we'd complain anyway like we did when the previous albums came out. I think not. Most people were very satisfied with the leaked songs from the Makaveli & Dillinger EP that Daz made with few complaints.

I really hope that Amaru never gives Eminem the opportunity to touch a single Pac track ever, especially after he made bland versions of those previously unreleased songs on the Resurrection soundtrack and after ruining almost an entire album of Pac material afterward. In all honesty, if I had to choose between Eminem and Lil Jon doing production... Lil Jon would win. His beats are at least at a fast enough tempo to be on pace with Pac's vocals and can be danced to; you can hardly even do the robot in slow motion to the majority of Eminem's beats.

Damn you hit the nail on the head with that post, especially about the lack of Investment and Promotion.

Casey · Dec 22, 2005

emking said:

No. Eminem's wack production was the sole reason that LTTG sucked ass. This is evident due to the fact that the 3 bonus tracks produced by Scott Storch, DJ Quik and Raphael Saadiq were the best things on there.

And, there is an entire vault of unreleased OG 'pac material that is complete and amazing. Even if they just released "Soon As I Get Home" and "Play Your Cards Right" as OG's, that would shit all over Loyal To The Game.

FroDawgg · Dec 22, 2005

^^^i disagree. i am one of those people who did not think that LTTG sucked. it may be one of pac's "worst" albums, but i in no way think that it was bad.
while not all of the beats were good, there were a lot of tight ones on there, as with every single pac album, before or after his death. i did not really agree with changing pac's words to make fake shoutouts, but they weren't really done within the context of a verse, just as adlibs, so it didn't really change the content of the song.
i also think the only non em-produced track that is good is the scott storch one.
one last thing...i think the fact that eminem produced most of the album is the reason it is hated so much, not so much for the product, but the idea of him producing it. i think if people did not know that em produced those beats or if some other, better liked, producer did the SAME beats, people would hate them even less or maybe even like them. but it's people hating it just b/c em's name is attached to it. he may not be the best producer, but he's far from the worst...FAR from it. it may not be direct racism that he or this album gets so much hate, but a lot of people who hate on em do so b/c he is white, and try to hide it saying that he sucks or has no skills, which everyone knows is bullshit, seeing that he is one of the most talented MCs out there.

peace

meltiger · Dec 22, 2005

FroDawgg said:

Many of the beats were shit and were rubbish that Tupac wouldn't have ever released in his name.

The one song that did have potential was ruined by the producer and is the main reason that I for one, hate the album ...

Ghetto Gospel.

This song could have been anything, but we have to put up with with a pre-pubescent sounding Pac rapping, due to the fact Em totally RAPED his vocals.

This was the worst thing on the album, and why it does not deserve to be even considered a Tupac release.

One of the things that draws people to Pac is the passion with which he raps, be it on a battle track like Hit Em Up, or a personal song like Dear Mama. You can feel every single word that Pac raps, because of the passion he threw into it.

Speeding up, slowing down and drawing out Pac's vocals, completely ruins any sense of connection you can feel to what the man was feeling at the time.

Thugz Get Lonely Too is a prime example, what the fuck was Marshall thinking when he changed Pac's voice on that song?

Em got many things right, the hook on the above mentioned track is fantastic (I love Nate's work), and the beat not so bad (altho not great) but what Em did to Pac's vocals was quite simply wrong.

& no Tupac fan in their right mind should support the estate allowing anyone to do that to the music.

FroDawgg said:

No. Many of us actually like Em's music ... I have no problem with any producer who wants to have a shot at producing Pac's music ... So long as the end product is worth while, and the producer shows respect to what Pac stood for.

This Em did not do. He used the Tupac album solely as a means of promoting his own artists. That was quite simply, the only intention of the album.

EDouble · Dec 22, 2005

lol @ the white thing. that was the funniest shit when it dropped. Like 1% of people hatin on the album was hatin because Em was white but all the Em fans that defended it kept ramblin on about racism

meltiger · Dec 22, 2005

lol Many of us still bitching ... as Ruk has pointed out ... Are white.

Labelling it as racism is purely Em's fans taking a blinkered attitude so they can defend what he did.

Simple fact - Marshall fucked up the music.

EDouble · Dec 22, 2005

emking: It's crazy how u can be so blind ure talkin about the good of pac and not criticizing. while afeni or dina or edi or whoever the fuck else is killin him over again killin over what he wished 2 remain true 2 him and 2 everybody else what with his legacy.

'Lets not criticize, we don't know.'
then eminem (huh?) comes out of no where with permission to take edit plaster on bullshittin weak ass beats that he spent a weekend making, then throw on everybody on his label complete with Tupac shoutouts all in some failed atempt at SOMETHIN that is confusin as fuck to anybody.
and youre so blind, you can sit there and talk about nobody knowing what tupac would of wanted and with THIS have the audacity to say SHIT LIKE.
"WHO KNOWS I THINK PAC WOULD OF WORKED WITH EM JUST BASED ON TALENT. AND PAC WAS A BUSINESSMAN. SO WHO ARE WE TO CRITICIZE EMINEM, A MAN WHO AFENI LOVED AND RESPECTED, FOR HIS WORK ON LOYAL TO THE GAME. EVEN DRE WAS INVOLVED, HIM AND PAC WENT TO SIX FLAGS 2GETHER. WE DON'T KNOW, SO PAC PROBABLY DIDN'T EVEN WANT RELEASED ANY OF THE MATERIAL USED ON THE PREVIOUS 15 POSTHUMOUS RELEASES. LOYAL 2 THE GAME IS A WINNER. 5 STARS BUT Y'ALL CAN'T APPRECIATE. EMINEM IS WHITE, JUST GET OVER IT."

CAUSE THATS WHAT IM GETIN FROM IT.

PEACE AND ONE LOVE :horny:

DeeezNuuuts83 · Dec 22, 2005

Wow... I'm surprised everybody read my entire post, as long as it was. Jack and Coke works wonders in the middle of the night...

emking said:

The quality of Pac albums is definitely diminishing, but not because the pool of unreleased songs is getting smaller and smaller, it's because the powers that be seem to keep fucking up a good thing. I don't really see what they're doing as "making money off of old stuff"--to me, that would be a project like Nu-Mixx Klassics. It is definitely possible to make old stuff (in this case, unreleased material from 1996 and earlier) sound good--Briss's tracks (When We Ride on Our Enemies and Street Fame) were pretty sick, and some other producers dropped some nice beats here and there that I was pleased with. But once again, the money thing comes into play, which is connected to Em's production, the replacing of original guest rappers with different rappers close to Pac willing to work for slightly above minimum wage (99% of the time it is the Outlawz), and the general overall disappointment with the last few albums. It's always about money.

AmerikazMost · Dec 22, 2005

emking, simply put, I think you're full of shit and that everything you said was wrong.

Please explain...

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More arrogant than SicC

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Capo Dei Capi

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Will suck off black men for a dime

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Will suck off black men for a dime

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