Pac being best at lyrical skills.
- Thread starter Bachaveli
- Start date
thats bullshit
He could never hang with the Holy Trinity of rhyme: Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas. He didn't have Big's ability to construct interlocking rhyme schemes laden with hidden corridors; was no rival for Jigga's deceptively simple wit or wordplay; couldn't conjure Esco's sage observations and unique rhyme couplets. For the craft of the matter, the Hot Boys are better line-for-line MCs.
how can they say that when Big and Jigga are rumored to have not wrote any rhymes down?Get real now.....ain't no way the shit the were spitting was that advacne just off the top.
Yet 'Pac was turning an artistic corner before his death. He began spitting "spiritual lyrics like the Holy Qu'Ran" and moving towards surreal imagery that cooked the Bible in a cauldron under a street lamp. "Have you ever seen a crackhead?" he asked. "That's eternal fire." He drank so much he "swore I saw the devil in my empty glass of Hennessey." And, while the gun-as-girlfriend exercise "Me And My Girlfriend" lags behind earlier gun metaphors like Nas' "I Gave You Power" and Organized Konfusion's "Stray Bullet" it was a move towards higher creativity.
never heard the organized track but Me and My girlfreind wa WAY better then I gave you power(wasnt that hard to tell NAs was rappin from the point of a gun which he saids he is, while Pac didnt made it just vague enough for people, including Jay Z hahaha, to think its bout an actaul girl)
He could never hang with the Holy Trinity of rhyme: Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas. He didn't have Big's ability to construct interlocking rhyme schemes laden with hidden corridors; was no rival for Jigga's deceptively simple wit or wordplay; couldn't conjure Esco's sage observations and unique rhyme couplets. For the craft of the matter, the Hot Boys are better line-for-line MCs.
how can they say that when Big and Jigga are rumored to have not wrote any rhymes down?Get real now.....ain't no way the shit the were spitting was that advacne just off the top.
Yet 'Pac was turning an artistic corner before his death. He began spitting "spiritual lyrics like the Holy Qu'Ran" and moving towards surreal imagery that cooked the Bible in a cauldron under a street lamp. "Have you ever seen a crackhead?" he asked. "That's eternal fire." He drank so much he "swore I saw the devil in my empty glass of Hennessey." And, while the gun-as-girlfriend exercise "Me And My Girlfriend" lags behind earlier gun metaphors like Nas' "I Gave You Power" and Organized Konfusion's "Stray Bullet" it was a move towards higher creativity.
never heard the organized track but Me and My girlfreind wa WAY better then I gave you power(wasnt that hard to tell NAs was rappin from the point of a gun which he saids he is, while Pac didnt made it just vague enough for people, including Jay Z hahaha, to think its bout an actaul girl)
Actually, you just displayed a perfect example of one of the reasons I love 'Pac. Not always, but often he would throw in little snippets of his personal misery or heartache into club or party songs or simply songs that told a story unrelated to him. This separated him from other rappers because if you listen to a party track from another rapper you could expect to hear the same old references to partying, drinking, etc. Of course, there are some 'Pac songs that do exactly that, such as "Ratha Be Ya NIGGA," among others. However, there are several songs that have to do with a particular theme (like How Do You Want It) but strays at points from the main theme and bring up personal convictions, feelings or beliefs.
One example that stands out off the top of my head is Mama's Just A Lil Girl" which tells the story of a young mother trying to raise her children in the ghetto and dealing with issues of poverty and drugs. Yet, in the third verse 'Pac, while relating details of one of the child's lives, begins lamenting his own sorrow and suffering. He raps,
"But still I'm the victim of a curse
What could be worse?
Nothing but pain
Since my birth, taught me functions at the pen
Cause everybody's in paying back society
I'm guilty of a life of sin
I watched the drama occur
My eyes blurred 'fore I jet it
I wonder why we all have to die for we get it
Though we shed tears
So many peers I done buried
Worried and scared
Knowing I'ma see the cemetery"
Perhaps that's not the best example, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say
Peace
Just because they were rumored to have not written their rhymes down doesn't mean that they were freestyling it. They just composed their song lyrics in their heads after listening to a beat several times. This is not easy but not impossible either.
I share the same opinion as you, I definitely think "Me and My Girlfriend" is better than "I Gave You Power" (since Nas's song is more of an obvious simile whereas Pac's song is more of a subtle metaphor), but just because Jay-Z re-did it actually about a girl doesn't mean that he didn't know that the song was really a metaphor for a gun.
I share the same opinion as you, I definitely think "Me and My Girlfriend" is better than "I Gave You Power" (since Nas's song is more of an obvious simile whereas Pac's song is more of a subtle metaphor), but just because Jay-Z re-did it actually about a girl doesn't mean that he didn't know that the song was really a metaphor for a gun.
I didnt mean that Jay did that....although maybe when he FIRST heard the song he did, but when he made the song of course he had to have God I would hope so....but yea its the fact that he was able to flip the song so easliy into being about a girl since the song was just vague enough to make people think so (and anybody who heard Me and My Girlfreind AFTER hearing Jayz' version might question the song meaning even more)
It is pretty impossible I would think;however, that is alot of things to consider (how many e sounds I end with, internals, this with that) if that the case we should be saying the producers and those who mix the lyrics are the great ones.But I do believe that they do rhyme the lyrics off the top of head (since I have been round poeple that do this if not as great) it is not hard to spit a lil bit of the lyrics on tape then when the rest comes up you do the rest. I do not doubt that Jigga and Biggie this but its the fact that people try and make it seem like they are getting so advance(more then Pac). As a writer (and a freestyler) I know there is ALOT of thought that go into writing lyrics and adding things on purpose. I don't know it just seems very unlikely that there shit is that ADVANCE right off the top....but thats besides the point.... 2pac was a good lyricist, I am not saying the best but he was a good one.He did use mulitis as well as internal rhymes people seem to forget that.....the fact is people try to say that being advance having this and that rhyme scheme or metehor makes you a king lyricist that is a lie. The real lyricist have the diverse subejct matter (which he did) and are able to be felt by the advance and the dumbest.....relating to someone lyrics (no matter the subject) is the true indiction of a good lyricist. At least to me and many others.
It is pretty impossible I would think;however, that is alot of things to consider (how many e sounds I end with, internals, this with that) if that the case we should be saying the producers and those who mix the lyrics are the great ones.But I do believe that they do rhyme the lyrics off the top of head (since I have been round poeple that do this if not as great) it is not hard to spit a lil bit of the lyrics on tape then when the rest comes up you do the rest. I do not doubt that Jigga and Biggie this but its the fact that people try and make it seem like they are getting so advance(more then Pac). As a writer (and a freestyler) I know there is ALOT of thought that go into writing lyrics and adding things on purpose. I don't know it just seems very unlikely that there shit is that ADVANCE right off the top....but thats besides the point.... 2pac was a good lyricist, I am not saying the best but he was a good one.He did use mulitis as well as internal rhymes people seem to forget that.....the fact is people try to say that being advance having this and that rhyme scheme or metehor makes you a king lyricist that is a lie. The real lyricist have the diverse subejct matter (which he did) and are able to be felt by the advance and the dumbest.....relating to someone lyrics (no matter the subject) is the true indiction of a good lyricist. At least to me and many others.
According to them yes, but the fact is he took the subject and made it better. You forget that Pac had beef with NAs maybe this was his way of "whupping his muthafuckin ass with his own fuckin beat" (as he said at the HOuse of Blues when Troublesome 96 starts) maybe this was his way of whuppin his ass and provin that any style you do he can do BETTER (another indiction of his lyricism he was quoted as saying he had studied and mastered all the styles of his rivals Makaveli was the start of this). He was inpsired yes, but maybe not the way that many try and make it out to be.
Lol, I hadn't even noticed it was you who posted those lyrics, guess I picked the right song then. :laugh:
I also agree on 50 cent, I think people hate on his lyrics too much. He has his moments of shine. I'm actually one of the few people who don't think The Massacre sucked that bad but I still think he is not on the same level as Pac when it comes to being lyrical.
I also agree on 50 cent, I think people hate on his lyrics too much. He has his moments of shine. I'm actually one of the few people who don't think The Massacre sucked that bad but I still think he is not on the same level as Pac when it comes to being lyrical.
The "whoop his ass with his own mothafuckin' beat" statement was referring to Troublesome '96 specifically, since it along with Friends and Nas's If I Ruled the World all sampled the same beat, except Troublesome '96 sounds less like it since it only uses a similar bassline.
However, I will agree about the theory of Pac beating Nas with his own style. First, you've got Pac using an instrumental that interpolates the same sample that Nas used on one of his songs. Second, Pac uses Nas's idea from I Gave You Power and turns it into a banger while being even more metaphorical and subtle simultaneously. Third (and this is a little theory of mine), Pac disses Nas in When Thugz Cry not only verbally (in the OG outro) but lyrically as well. In my opinion, the words coming out of Pac's mouth weren't typical of his simple flow; it sounds like a Makaveli-fied Nas flow with all of its imagery (kind of like how he rhymed in One Mic), more so than Pac's usual flow:
"Born thugging and loving the way I came up
Big-money clutching, busting while evading cocaine busts
My pulse rushing, semi-clutching into insanity
They shot at my cousin, now we busting at their whole family"
"I black out and start cussing, bust 'em and touch 'em all
They panic while bitches ducking, I rush 'em and fuck 'em all
I'll probably be an old man before I understand
Why I had to live my life with pistols close in hand
Kidnapped my homey's sister, cut her face up bad
They even raped her, so we blazed their pad
Automatic shots rang out on every block
They putting hits out on politicians, even cops"
However, I will agree about the theory of Pac beating Nas with his own style. First, you've got Pac using an instrumental that interpolates the same sample that Nas used on one of his songs. Second, Pac uses Nas's idea from I Gave You Power and turns it into a banger while being even more metaphorical and subtle simultaneously. Third (and this is a little theory of mine), Pac disses Nas in When Thugz Cry not only verbally (in the OG outro) but lyrically as well. In my opinion, the words coming out of Pac's mouth weren't typical of his simple flow; it sounds like a Makaveli-fied Nas flow with all of its imagery (kind of like how he rhymed in One Mic), more so than Pac's usual flow:
"Born thugging and loving the way I came up
Big-money clutching, busting while evading cocaine busts
My pulse rushing, semi-clutching into insanity
They shot at my cousin, now we busting at their whole family"
"I black out and start cussing, bust 'em and touch 'em all
They panic while bitches ducking, I rush 'em and fuck 'em all
I'll probably be an old man before I understand
Why I had to live my life with pistols close in hand
Kidnapped my homey's sister, cut her face up bad
They even raped her, so we blazed their pad
Automatic shots rang out on every block
They putting hits out on politicians, even cops"
Truth....:thumb: this also is a testment to his lyrical ablities as well I know he meant that for Troublesome I used that as an example as he has done shit (anything you can do I can do better) before so why not with the concept of Me and My girlfriend?Outlawz make it sound like Pac did the song out of respect to Nas, I say he was inspired alright but did it out of spite.
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