NAPOLEON on PAC, and Life as a Muslim (RECENT)

[cookies]

Man some of you guys really need to admit that you guys are RIDING ON PACS NUTS TOO MUCH!




Im one of his biggest fans, and dont get me wrong, PAC was the GREATEST to EVER do it, as a person, revolutionary, artist, intellectual, and WILL be the greatest ever in my opinion. But saying FUCK napoleon for his views is completely ignorant. This is the same man who rode with Pac during his prime, same man who made that 7yr video "Never Forget" in commemoration of his fallen homie Tupac Amaru Shakur, this is also the same man who has found something in his life that he can put faith in.

He's not saying fuck tupac, hes saying that the entire hiphop industry (mostly owned by whites and jews) altogether is really in essence brainwashing the American youth and selling this culture of violence, drugs, and exposure of women for profit. Napoleon wasn't talking down on the real thugs(underdogs in society) and the real people in the streets who do what they have to do to survive as in any other nation, but he is talking down on how this industry makes the privileged youth in our world want to seek out this life. And that to me is exactly on the point. We've all seen kids with parents who will buy them anything they want, but instead, they seek out to sell drugs and be led in a life of crime. All Napoleon is saying that kids shouold not look up to these rappers as role models, they are merely entertainers and what this industry is doin is clouding the minds of our youth.


Even Tupac himself recognized this, that is why he devoted his life to spit shit as real as possible and try not to glorify the street life. Some of his fans understood his real message in his lyrics, and continued to use that as motivation to be a stronger and better person in his or her own life. But as all things come with consequences, others looked to him as a role model of the street and followed him in that way. But I guess that's but ultimately made Tupac real as everyone says, he's only human...and he understood the effects of his actions, to me, as a fan that never met him, his own words in Tupac Ressurection and his music put together give the greatest reflection of who the man really was.

on point

 

[NazihHawi]

and to NazihHawi... a) the reason he left music is because music is forbidden in Islam

No it's not..

 

[ImmortalTech]

Maybe u didnt read the rest of that sentence Nazih ... "There are many different opinions on that." And thats a religious discussion it doesnt have much to do with all this therefore I didnt get into it. The school of thought that Napoleon is learning from believes music is forbidden in Islam and also have sunbstancial proofs to their beleifs. And if you dont think Music is forbidden in Islam, it is your opinion many would argue that it is forbidden, both sides have proofs. But most scholars are at agreement that Music is forbidden, due to many proofs from the Quran & Sunnah.

Here's a site which disucusses the topic. You dont have to agree with it, but it is a point of view in Islam. So dont just blatantly say "Music is not forbidden in Islam" because you have no right to say that. Neither do I. But we can all have our opinion on the topic, based on our knowledge.

http://www.ahmadjibril.com/articles/music.html

-peace

 

[NazihHawi]

Maybe u didnt read the rest of that sentence Nazih ... "There are many different opinions on that."

I read the whole sentence, perfectly well, thank u. All i did was give an opinion on the subject, a different opinion than yours.. Or didnt u say that there are different opinions on this subject?!!

So dont just blatantly say "Music is not forbidden in Islam" because you have no right to say that. Neither do I. But we can all have our opinion on the topic, based on our knowledge.

1st, you are clearly contradicting yourslef !!!
U say that niether of us have the right to bluntly state that music is forbidden or not in Islam, yet u gave urself the right to say, and i quote u, "Music is forbidden in Islam".. But when i said "It's not", u were irritated.. hmmm !!!

And 2nd, i have every right in the world to say what i think or believe, as long as i'm not crossing any boundaries, and i clearly wasn't crossing boundaries homie.. I just gave my opinion.. Actually, i think i'm more entitled to give my opinion than u are, since i live in Lebanon, Middle East, in the middle of the arab and islamic world, and music here is as natural and normal as breathing oxygen.. So regardless of the ideological debate, what's true in practice is that music is not forbidden by any means.. Saudi Arabia and Iran are two "fully" devoted religious countries, representing both the Sunnis and the Shiites, and they have scores and scores of musicians and artists/singers.. Not to mention other "more religiously moderate" islamic countries, such as Egypt, or Jordan or Syria or others, where if u go stating that music is forbidden in their religion, i think u'll get a "LOL" or a "LMAO" if u prefer!!!

 

[ImmortalTech]

"the reason he left music is because music is forbidden in Islam, theres several reasons for it and also many opinions on it, but thats a whole diff discussion" <-- that was my exact quote. THAT MEANS according to most Muslim scholars Music is forbidden and there are differences of opinion on that. but maybe i wasnt too clear. and as far as the second 'contradicting quote' I'm saying we have no right to state what Islam says about music is Allah gave the guidelines. And we can have our opinions on it, but the only thing that is right and is Islam is what Allah said.

And just cuz ur from Lebenon doesnt mean anything. And just because Arabians or anybody else doesnt practice Islam properly, thats their fault. Remember Muslims make mistakes, and just because they make them, doesnt make it Islam. If I get an LOL in Islamic countries for claiming Music is Haraam its from a bunch of ignorant motherfuckers, who dont know the Shariya very well. You and I both know Allah's name is cursed in the Muslim world duing hard times. Is this right? NO. But Muslims do it in the Muslim world

so Please go read into this topic, and stop taking ur nationality or reliogious background as an upperhand on the topic.. because we all know the Ummah is weak and most of it is uneducated. or else it wouldnt be in the state it is today. The truth is truth doesnt matter who accepts it and who likes it.

In reality Salafi scholars (who Mutah learns his Islam from) are in Ijmaat that Music is Haraam. The University of Madinah is filled with professors that happen to be from this group of Salafi scholars and the appointed Mufti's are also chosen from that group. Do I agree with them? No, do I have any loyalty to them? No.. but the truth is Major Scholars in Islam have agreed that Music is Haram.

This topic can be taken like the Hijaab... Most scholars will say it's required other than a few. And certain countries in the Islamic world I would get laughed at for saying that too. But its common knowledge.

And wake up and look around you. Theres alot of Haraam that goes on in the Muslim world and is widely accepted as ok. Nxt time u have the oppurtunity to visit Makkah fo Hajj or Umrah, look at what surrounds Harm... hmmm banks that deal with interest (the houses of ribaa). Go check what the Quran and Hadith says about that.

 

[NazihHawi]

and as far as the second 'contradicting quote' I'm saying we have no right to state what Islam says about music is Allah gave the guidelines. And we can have our opinions on it, but the only thing that is right and is Islam is what Allah said.

Well, 1st, u must have missed my earlier post in this thread, where i said that i'm not Muslim, cause u seem to be addressing me as one.. But i do live among Muslims, and i have Muslim friends who disagree with u in that ALL Muslim scholars consider music as illegal. They tell me that this subject is debatable, and that some say that music is illegal, while others say it's not, and they're all basing on "God's Word", but they seem to have different explanations for it. So since not all scholars say the same thing, there is no right and wrong about this subject, since both sides claim that their point of view is God's word.

If I get an LOL in Islamic countries for claiming Music is Haraam its from a bunch of ignorant motherfuckers, who dont know the Shariya very well.

Sure.. any moderate person with an open mind is an ignorant motherfucker .. Just do me a favor next time, and watch ur words homie !!

so Please go read into this topic, and stop taking ur nationality or reliogious background as an upperhand on the topic..

I wasn't taking nothing as an upperhand !!!

because we all know the Ummah is weak and most of it is uneducated. or else it wouldnt be in the state it is today.

Actually, the Arab world (Muslims, Christians and other ethnic groups) is in the state it is today because of too much religion, and not lack of it, and i mean this in a secular way, and not as a jab at any religion in particular.

The truth is truth doesnt matter who accepts it and who likes it.

All religions who said that, failed eventually.. Christians in the middle ages and up to a couple of hundred years ago used to say this, but they hit the wall, and knew that religion cannot be imposed by force, but it's rather something u should be convinced of, for it to work..
So if it's dry, cold and unlikable, then it's not religion..

In reality Salafi scholars (who Mutah learns his Islam from) are in Ijmaat that Music is Haraam. The University of Madinah is filled with professors that happen to be from this group of Salafi scholars and the appointed Mufti's are also chosen from that group. Do I agree with them? No, do I have any loyalty to them? No.. but the truth is Major Scholars in Islam have agreed that Music is Haram.

See, as i said, i'm not Muslim myself, but we do study all religions from a cultural perspective, so i know enough to know that the "Salafi" school is a minority in the Islam world, or at least they have the least supporters.. But anyways, if the Salafis say something, it doesn't mean that it's true or final, since it's an ongoing debate between them and more moderate "schools" in the Islamic religion itself..

This topic can be taken like the Hijaab... Most scholars will say it's required other than a few. And certain countries in the Islamic world I would get laughed at for saying that too. But its common knowledge.
And wake up and look around you. Theres alot of Haraam that goes on in the Muslim world and is widely accepted as ok. Nxt time u have the oppurtunity to visit Makkah fo Hajj or Umrah, look at what surrounds Harm... hmmm banks that deal with interest (the houses of ribaa). Go check what the Quran and Hadith says about that.

Again, since i'm not Muslim, i really can't comment on any of this. Sorry if i didn't make myself clear from the start..


Finally, i was just wondering: since ur such a believer urself, y dont u practice what u preach?? I mean i dont understand what ur doing in this forum, and in the "killin fields" too, listening to 2Pac and immortal tech, and then calling people "ignorant motherfuckers"?!!!!!

 

[ImmortalTech]

a) I made it very clear that this is an opinion of MOST MAJOR Muslim scholars, and not ALL... I dont know where u got that from.

b) I'm not saying open minded ppl are ignorant motherfuckers, but anyone that claims to be a mulsim or studies Islam and doesnt realize that this is a subject agreed upon by most major scholars that music is haraam is and i quote an "ignorant motherfucker" Open minded has nothing to do with it.

c) Thats fine if u werent taking that as an upperhand, most ppl from the Arab world just come off that way, since they grow up around it, they feel they understand it best.

d) you feel the Arab world is in the state it is today cuz of too much religion. I think its the way it is cuz of misinformation of religion, and the use of religion to further personal/political motives. But those are opinions so it doesnt matter.

e) i stand by my point the truth is the truth, never said anything about force, and i never said its unlikeable. But I do understand ur point, but tahts not what i was getting at

f) Yes the Salafi school is a minority (compared to some others), but it is the minority in power.. And I wouldnt go as far as to say it has the least supporters.. And ur absolutely right just cuz Salafi's say something it doesnt make it right, but what I was getting at is THEY teach the scholars that end up having a voice in Saudi Arabia, and those are the scholars educating Napoleon. I'm not saying that theyre right and Im not saying I support them, but they are the ones that taught Napoleon, hence his decision to leave the Music industry.

g) yes I think theres been alot of miscommunication between us, but shit happens when u talk through a message board, we all interpret things differently.

and FINALLY : I dont recall saying that I Believe "Music is forbidden". All this time I'm trying to say many Muslims believe this is the case, and that a Majority of Scholars who are coming from Madina University that are educating most Muslims believe it is forbidden. They have good reason to say it is as there is alotta proofs in the Quran and Sunnah. Therefore the people that just say "MUSIC IS NOT FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM" (with full conviction in there words) need to go back and understand the Shariya because there is a very strong opposition that says it is. And, maybe u got me wrong, I'm not preaching anything, I'm just trying to shed some light on why Napoleon is giving up music completely since that is what alotta ppl were wondering. If u really wanna know what I think on the topic, I personally dont know, I have studied the proofs from both sides, and i just dont know. The side that says it is forbidden seems to have stronger proofs, but music is a weakness I have. But just cuz I have a weakness doesn't mean that I'll make bold statements like "MUSIC IS NOT FORBIDDEN".. just because I listen to it doesnt make it Halaal and if i'm uneducated on the topic and talking outta place with bold statements would make me an ignorant motherfucker.

.. yea i didnt know how to quote right, sorry. And I dint mean to offend u by saying "ignorant motherfucker" wasnt directly aimed at u, though that is what it would seem, when reading over my post.

~peace

(for real though this is turning into a religion topic, and both of us just picking at eachothers linguistic mistakes/ misinterpretting things, and/or taking shit personally, so fuck it man, If u got any other questions on the topic, holla at me. Dont mean to be disrespecting u or anybody else on the boards for their opinion and thoughts)

 

[BIG NASTY]

oh god we have a jihad war in here

everyone jump ship and go to another thread

 

[cookies]

Ashur, I wasnt talking about u in particular, i've seen it too many times, that when a man turns to religion. Alot of ppl go oh fuck that pussy, i thought he was a street cat (those are just dudes on the street).. and so on. But in reality all his close friends are happy that he's being more positive in life.

Other than that, I dont think a man is brainwashed if he goes too far into religion. I dont think there is such a thing as too far. Extremist views are wrong because they are wrong, not because they are extreme. I mean if a man made his purpose in life to educate the uneducated, and was dead serious about it. He is also an extremist but for a good cause. A value he holds close and has faith and believes in it. Now same case for Napoleon, he has found something he loves, and believes in, so juss be happy for the man, and lets all move on with our lives.

And u believe religion takes away contol from a man, and it weakens him. Thats ur view and I cant argue with u for that. But Napoleon personally feels stronger, and more focused, so let em do his thing man.

and to NazihHawi... a) the reason he left music is because music is forbidden in Islam, theres several reasons for it and also many opinions on it, but thats a whole diff discussion

b) no White or jews dont write the lyrics for rappers, but are the ultimate judges of what will be big and what wont since they have the power of promotion and distribution. Napo could have released a cd with positive lyrics but it wouldnt get much attention like the other million rappers that do positive hip hop... every once in a while u have a concious track that makes it big, but thats very rare cases.

c) I agree Pac was not a bad man, he did many positive things, and anyone that really gets to understand pac knows that. And alot of other "gangsta" rappers may be the same. But the truth is, the general public doesnt understand this. They see rich gangsta rappers and wanna be like them (what they talk about on wax) this is why it hurts the youth. Again I agree this not always the rappers fault, it is societies fault for accepting and even glorifying such behavior.

And you know what man, we can all have our opinions on Napoleon, but Napoleons a grown man, he has a family to take care of and kids to raise. He's happier in the place he is today, and feels its the right thing, so lets just respect that and hope he can live his life more peacefully.

.. and Brett:

Fuck you, u dont like what he has to say, go eat a dick, nobody gives a fuck. You gota problem with him, he was in ur city. Why didnt u go call him a "knob" to his face and tell him his religion is "rubbish"... we coulda Seen how that "knob" woulda dealt with u. Ur juss wishin he was still talking about the shit that gets his people murdered or in jail right?

i feel that post.

 

[miqalive]

Nice post. Since pac died the outlaw members went there own way. Its all crazy men the leader gone now the whole group separated. I always thought there would come a reunion! but still respect for what Napoleon is doing he's a grown as man now

 

[DontGo2Sleep]

^^actually all the outlawz are getting back together, it's just napoleon who is the missing link.

then again with what fatal has been talking trash about this site and edi and company are ruining 2pac's music, i think it's better if napo stays away.

 

[GoOkSiCC06]

It has been a while... BUMP for those who havent been up on this...

1 love yall, im out