Interesting....

[S O F I]

Frank Zappa was quoted as saying, "If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library."

While that statement resonates with many of us, there are benefits to attaining a degree where it's more than just memorization. It provides a forum for discussion and surrounds you with intelligent peers (hopefully) whom you can talk to. It teaches critical thinking, hones your public speaking, and gives you a chance to talk to experts in different fields. It surrounds you with resources that may motivate and inspire you to find a passion in life. Sometimes, attending a university is the best way to realize that you don't need to attend, on a personal level, to accomplish what you want to accomplish. The main thing to take away is that a college education and a degree aren't the only way to go in life. Degrees are not definite precursors to success and are definitely not clear evidence of intelligence. But they can be, and for many people, are.

Chronic says that Masta makes it seem like it's the only way to go. FlipMo makes a point that people are brainwashed into thinking a degree is neccessary. I don't agree. I don't agree that people are brainwashed into thinking that. It's just that, in simple terms, many career paths require a degree. It's just that, for many people who don't know what they want to do in life and have no inherent motivation and ambition, a university education can help them find a path. It's far from necessary, but it sure does help.

The big push for kids to go to college doesn't come from some evil college deans. The big push comes from people who work hand-in-hand with low income kids who don't have access to opportunities in life. When we tell a kid in the projects to get a degree, we're not brainwashing him into thinking that a degree is necessary to be successful or that he'll end up in jail or dead. We are saying that the degree will provide opportunities that he might not have without it due to his circumstances.

 

[Chronic]

Anyone idiot can pick up a book and remember what is in it. In no way whatsoever does that make the person intelligent. Knowing that e=mc^2 and knowing how and why e=mc^2 are two seperate things.

I don't know what you're replying to here.

 

[masta247]

This is what I'm judging you on. It's as if getting a degree is the way to go and any intelligent person will automatically long for a degree if there's nothing pulling them elsewhere. There's always been an air of arrogance surrounding university. It's like high society looking down on the plebs. The intelligent people go to university, unintelligent people become laborers.

I'm not saying it's the only way to go. I'm just assuming that statistically there are more intelligent people amongst university graduates and statistically they're intelligence is higher than of those without elementary education which was the original point and seems pretty obvious to me. My argument was that people with low intelligence couldn't graduate.

Explain how a pursuit of knowledge will land a person with a degree. I can see how it may lead them to enroll in some classes but to me it's much more evident for an intelligent person to study on their own and only branch out when they need to. I don't know him personally so I'm only guessing but I'm pretty sure Jokerman didn't get all of his knowledge from acquiring numerous degrees, he bought his own books and studied on his own.

If you're really interested in something you will most probably study it (again, I'm not saying everyone will in case you want to say that I'm generalizing again).
Professional lectures, people who are really good at their thing mean way more than reading their books. If I was interested in maths going to university would be probably the first thing I'd do if I had an opportunity. If I didn't know what to do but was smart I'd go to university to find out and do something productive with my life.
I don't know about Jokerman but why do you assume that he is so intelligent? Maybe he is, but the reason you mentioned him was probably because he has knowledge on a few specific subjects that are considered "smart" (or knows where to search for it), is literate over the internet and represents himself with specific personality traits.
So is this a better measure of intelligence to you?

Isn't the term 'knowledge' is subjective either? An expert in farts is still an expert. Is a business degree something you'd consider a hallmark of intelligence?

hallmark no, but if he passed these exams and has that business degree then he's most probably not unintelligent (whilst I could expect that from someone uneducated). Knowledge to me is the information that you possess/learned over the years and still remember.
For some reason people consider specific information "better" than others. Personally I find it utterly stupid that a group of people might consider speaking latin "better" than speaking Japanese or Chinese, or knowledge of psychology "better" than physics while in reality it should be the other way around - it's harder to learn the latter, it requires intelligence rather than just reading a book.

And do you really think the majority of people get a degree because they have a lust for knowledge? It's for the job opportunities, the accolade on your personal record or simply because that's what people do.
A degree is a requirement for certain goals, no more, no less.

No, they get degrees for skills and job opportunities but if you have a job, you're intelligent and have interests then I think that sooner or later you'll consider getting a degree.
While it might not be the no.1 reason for getting a degree it is still a valid reason behind it.

Why? Why isn't self-study (less pressure, more time, the opportunity to study more than one field etc.) better?

Because while you can learn history or geography from books there are things you'd do much better studying in a university, letting smarter people explain and show you how to do something.

You say that but you don't seem to take those into account when you talk about people that are forced to drop out. Getting a degree isn't filling out a single test, it's 4+ years of working. You're just wrong if you think it's a race that only intelligent people get to finish when there are numerous factors in the play. What % of people with a degree are highly intelligent? What % of people with a degree are of average intelligent?

Sorry if it sounds like a generalization but I tried to make it clear that I only mean statistics. Casey disagreed when I said that on average people with degrees are more intelligent than those with no elementary education and I tried to explain why it seems so obvious to me. And again we're not talking about only highly intelligent people graduating from universities. I just mean that it requires a certain level of intelligence below which it's just impossible to pass it which means that universities usually "filter out" those who are for example way below average. I agree about other factors but intelligence is one of the most important ones.

 

[Flipmo]

Why do I feel this thread will somehow turn into a field VS field argument of who is more intelligent than who. lol

 

[masta247]

I was also worried but thought that it's pretty important that certain fields require a certain level of intelligence while others not always.
Intelligent people also study other things than science obviously if it interests them.
It just requires other skills.

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

I AM ZE MOIST INTELLYJENT""!oen1

..
I like apples.

 

[Da_Funk]

I don't know what you're replying to here.

I was replying to you implying that someone who is well read, and has therefore amassed vast amounts of information (knowledge) is somehow intelligent.

Flipmo, in general, the arts are much easier for unintelligent people. What I mean by this is that, many of the subjects encompassed by "arts" only require you to regurgitate information or bullshit your way through a paper. This is why arts are not deemed as prestigious by some people. Obviously this does not mean in any way that the arts are for dumb people. As an example, I'm doing a geology degree and I have yet to meet a single person who would ever think 2 lines constitute a paragraph.

People can hide behind the excuse that they are "un-motivated", in my experience those people are not un-motivated, they are lazy. They are not only lazy in regards to their academic career but in regards to almost every aspect of life. Those people, in my opinion, are worthless. Some people may truely be un-motivated, but then I have to ask, why in the fuck are you doing what your doing? Intelligence without ambition is useless.

 

[Chronic]

I was replying to you implying that someone who is well read, and has therefore amassed vast amounts of information (knowledge) is somehow intelligent.

Lol where?

 

[Flipmo]

Flipmo, in general, the arts are much easier for unintelligent people. What I mean by this is that, many of the subjects encompassed by "arts" only require you to regurgitate information or bullshit your way through a paper. This is why arts are not deemed as prestigious by some people. Obviously this does not mean in any way that the arts are for dumb people. As an example, I'm doing a geology degree and I have yet to meet a single person who would ever think 2 lines constitute a paragraph.

Yeah, most introductory classes (even some advanced depending on the program) in the arts is regurgitation, which imo is utter shit (only cause I already know all the stuff over the years from reading), anyone can pass that. I'm currently in History and taking advanced classes in Historiography which is a whole different level since it's not repetition, it's analysis; this is where you see the so called brainy A+ students fail miserably. Interestingly enough, most of the people who failed are marketing/commerce students who take my classes as an elective assuming it's simple and mess up their GPA. lol. Sometimes, I just think they let anyone into the Universities. Especially with the whole reform in high schools here, it's like impossible to fail your year if you mess up - which is only going to make things worse in the future imo. I agree with most of what you say though. How's Geology by the way? Some guy in one of my classes was in the program and he said he loves it, and it's quite interesting.

People can hide behind the excuse that they are "un-motivated", in my experience those people are not un-motivated, they are lazy. They are not only lazy in regards to their academic career but in regards to almost every aspect of life. Those people, in my opinion, are worthless. Some people may truely be un-motivated, but then I have to ask, why in the fuck are you doing what your doing? Intelligence without ambition is useless.

Truth.
One of my really close friends always says he's just not motivated - so he's a drop out at the moment, but he hardly tries to look into programs in University or in Trade schools to see what he likes. I can understand it's hard to be motivated in something that you hate, so the best thing to do is to find a field you like, but he doesn't even try. Not to mention other things he does just bleeds laziness. It's annoying as hell, especially when it's a friend you practically grew up with...

 

[Sebastian]

I AM ZE MOIST INTELLYJENT""!oen1

..
I like apples.

What exactly is your occupation again?

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Why? Does your gay boyband need another member? :love:

 

[S O F I]

^Thuggy, remember when Sebby used to be a nice person?

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

He's a tryhard now

 

[Da_Funk]

Lol where?

I don't even know. I'm actually one of those unintelligent people you were talking about

Yeah, most introductory classes (even some advanced depending on the program) in the arts is regurgitation, which imo is utter shit (only cause I already know all the stuff over the years from reading), anyone can pass that. I'm currently in History and taking advanced classes in Historiography which is a whole different level since it's not repetition, it's analysis; this is where you see the so called brainy A+ students fail miserably. Interestingly enough, most of the people who failed are marketing/commerce students who take my classes as an elective assuming it's simple and mess up their GPA. lol. Sometimes, I just think they let anyone into the Universities. Especially with the whole reform in high schools here, it's like impossible to fail your year if you mess up - which is only going to make things worse in the future imo.

Thats cool man. History facinates me. Analyzing social/political events requires a different kind've intelligence than crunching numbers so I'm not too surprised lol. History is one of my favourite subjects to learn about. I remember in my first year, both our midterm and final were completly based upon the text book, as well as both our term papers. Our prof would lecture on stuff that was semi-related to the text book material, except he'd usually go in to a lot more depth or off on tangents. I used to go to that lecture just to listen to him/his opinions

They do let anyone into university. I graduated high school with a 63% average, I think the lowest they accepted at U of M was 62. Three years later my gpa is 3.82 and I'm doing an honours degree. I was definately one of those kids who felt highschool was below them lol.

I agree with most of what you say though. How's Geology by the way? Some guy in one of my classes was in the program and he said he loves it, and it's quite interesting.

I love it. It is quite interesting, but the amount of work required to learn to material is off the hook. I spend the majority of my life at school, I don't even mind it though because the people I go to school with are amazing. Our classes are between 30 and 40 people but there is a group of about 10 who I consider my second family now. I think that is one of the main reasons I enjoy school so much.

Truth.
One of my really close friends always says he's just not motivated - so he's a drop out at the moment, but he hardly tries to look into programs in University or in Trade schools to see what he likes. I can understand it's hard to be motivated in something that you hate, so the best thing to do is to find a field you like, but he doesn't even try. Not to mention other things he does just bleeds laziness. It's annoying as hell, especially when it's a friend you practically grew up with...

I hear ya man. My step brother is exactly like this and it pisses me off to no end. Its real hard to watch a person drown like that.

 

[Tha_Wood]

 

[Chronic]

I don't even know. I'm actually one of those unintelligent people you were talking about

Me too. I lied about my IQ test results, instead they just laughed very loudly and said "good luck"

 

[Sebastian]

He's a tryhard now

Actually, it was a serious question.

So, what are you doing?

^Thuggy, remember when Sebby used to be a nice person?

When was that?

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Actually, it was a serious question.

So, what are you doing?

Why does that matter? 2. Though I have stated it before.

 

[Sebastian]

Idiot!

 

[tHuG $TyLe]

Sebby is mad that he can't stalk me. Poor lil German boy.