Blasphemy

#21
Very kudos on your post Kobe :thumb: And Yeshua too for that matter.

Yeshua, I hate to admit this but when you rephrased yourself I was actually a bit intrigued :p Sorry for coming at you like an ass.

how long have you been listening to Pac? i know pac's rhymes are underlying complex sometimes, but why do i get dissed or opposed in when it comes to expressing an opinion about pac's music all the time. it's not about pseudo intellectual b-shit, nothing to do with that. to this day, after 13 years, people are still discovering new things about pac's music. as a Pac fan in my own right, i know pac's music better than most of his critics, even if they are or claim to be fans or followers. how could you call yourself to be a fan of Pac if you are still criticizing the idea to define his raps? i hope that the concept of blasphemy opens doors to the rest of his raps ...
 

Kadafi Son

Well-Known Member
#22
Do u have a boy/girlfriend, Preach? Cuz i don't wanna be the one you're always fussin' with. I'm sorry if you don't get attention anywhere at home, but its not a good thing to beg for a discussion through belittling people. I'm glad you can write well, now go do something productive with it, cuz everybody on this board gets annoyed as hell by you.
 

Da_Funk

Well-Known Member
#23
Do u have a boy/girlfriend, Preach? Cuz i don't wanna be the one you're always fussin' with. I'm sorry if you don't get attention anywhere at home, but its not a good thing to beg for a discussion through belittling people. I'm glad you can write well, now go do something productive with it, cuz everybody on this board gets annoyed as hell by you.
Not really. Preach, imo, is one of the few truely intelligent people on here. I love reading most of his posts. You on the other hand usually come off as uneducated, unintelligent, and annoying.


As for the song, its hella dope. I just listened to the Makaveli album a couple weeks ago and finally realized what a good song it really is. I never really cared for it when I was listening to Pac religiously. Imo, its some dope lyrics over a dope beat. I'm not gonna spend time dissecting it b/c at the end of the day, it's a song.
 

Kobe

Well-Known Member
#26
For the arguing going on in here:

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?.......Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while.....-Rodney King

Now that I've gotten that out of the way.

Mama tell me am I wrong, is God just another cop
waitin to beat my ass if I don't go pop?!


This one alwayz rang in my head. As a black person, goin to church and seeing nothing but european images, and knowing that european missionaries and colonists have been bringin hell on earth every since their "exploration", it confuses a brotha sometimez and we wonder if the God we've been percieving in our churches will be as evil as the ones we've been dealing with on earth. So is God just anotha cop, waitin to beat my ass if i don't go pop?
I actually have a hard time breaking down this one because I always link it to Pac's experience with the cops beating his ass down. I'll agree with you because it raises the question again of the things we do here on earth that question God's presence or existence.

The point of discussions is to discuss, so if everyone's just like "Yea, thx, agree with OP" then the thread didn't need to get made in the first place. And Pac fans LOOOOVE to talk about Pac as a political leader and a revolutionary, but when you ask them more in depth about why they think so, they have no answer. Because they don't actually think so, they have adapted opinions they stole from others and never thought about for themselves.
Yes, unfortunately we will always have some people on this board that believe they must insult other members to get their point across. I still wait to see a time when people will have different opinions and simply agree to disagree without hurling an insult at the other party.

I've always found it hard to market 2pac as a revolutionary and a political leader. This is coming from someone who loves 2pac's music like no other out there. I do believe in his message of asking people to take a look around them and to understand the realities that happen around us. As long as he did that, I could care less about what sort of trouble he got into. 2pac made it clear that when you break the law, you go to jail & jail is not the spot. Basically, we need to understand the consequences of our actions and that's the message I got from 2pac's music in all the aspects he covered about life. Understand the consequence of your actions in everything you do.

However, I've read enough of the things that 2pac has said and done and I have drawn my conclusions about him. I finished reading Tupac Shakur: Legacy and all I could think was, "Oops!! Those who have no idea about 2pac are going to think this guy was an angel by the time they finish reading this book". So, when we get people on this board drawing possible misjudged conclusions like you mentioned, someone should explain the reality to them and just move on? However, some of us seem to chose to just ignore it instead of explaining it to them. That's where I think the trouble starts.

i know pac's rhymes are underlying complex sometimes, but why do i get dissed or opposed in when it comes to expressing an opinion about pac's music all the time. it's not about pseudo intellectual b-shit, nothing to do with that. to this day, after 13 years, people are still discovering new things about pac's music. as a Pac fan in my own right, i know pac's music better than most of his critics, even if they are or claim to be fans or followers. how could you call yourself to be a fan of Pac if you are still criticizing the idea to define his raps? i hope that the concept of blasphemy opens doors to the rest of his raps ...
Well said. There is always something to discover about 2pac's music. Not only lyrically but the way he composed the music as well. I normally monitor responses to your posts. Really, I'm still to understand why so many people are quick to object simply by hurling an insult or explaining their point of view. The depth of 2pac's music is fathoms deep. We on this board are still far from concluding our understandings of it. Especially when we have such few contributions to a song like this one that I brought up.

As for the song, its hella dope. I just listened to the Makaveli album a couple weeks ago and finally realized what a good song it really is. I never really cared for it when I was listening to Pac religiously. Imo, its some dope lyrics over a dope beat. I'm not gonna spend time dissecting it b/c at the end of the day, it's a song.
I'm not putting you on blast. You already know most of the things I'm telling you right now. So please: bear with me. A song is like any other form of expression the way one would classify literature or poetry. Therefore the same amount of time you spend dissecting Shakespeare or Maya Agelou is similar to the contribution you would make when dissecting a song. True, not every song has such deep meaning to it, but the same can be said about literature and poetry.

I mean when you watch an episode of 'Fresh Prince' and you hear lyrics like:

'Wade in the water,
wade in the water children.
Wade in the water,
God's gonna enter the water'


Sure its a song, but when you look at the content of the lyrics, you end up getting such a deep understanding of the song.

Yes it is Bank Robber. Yes it is. :lol:
 

Kadafi Son

Well-Known Member
#27
^^^
Yea, that Tupac Legacy book would really make people think that Pac was an angel. But I guess its too weigh out all the way the media used to post him as the devil. Thats why I think that it requires using common sense when ever we analyze anybody's legacy, especially if they had represented multiple aspects of society. And in a song like Blashpemy, High Til I Die or When Thugz Cry, you can understand that Pac was very obligated to make songs like these because of how much in tune with reality he was. Taking the good with the bad to an elevated level in the rap game, and then trying to apply its good into the game of life, ya know. Too bad they didn't talk too much about this in his Legacy book though, because somebody ignorant of his music and interviews would be completely lost.
 

Jon

Capo Di Capi Re
#29
Blashphemy = Powerful

Makaveli is an extremely important notion on this album and I believe Blasphemy is the heart and soul of this album. A large notion of Machiavellian principles is to operate under a public appearance while hiding your true objectives of personal gain. In my mind the notion of Makaveli is to begin debunking the Machiavellian principles the world operates under, and Blasphemy breaks it down like this:

The intro of the song lays out the basic principle of the bible that God is coming back with the Apocalypse to lay judgment, so behave God and you'll be ok, otherwise you're going to hell.

The song itself leans to the notion that the 'elite' of the world - predominantly those of European descent that set the foundation for Christianity - use this biblical position by controlling the behavior of the masses while furthering their own purposes under the Machiavellian principle of coming across one way to the public (religious) while fulfilling their own desires (greed). Anybody who opposes them (and the evil things they do to further themselves) can then be shrugged of as people who are blasphemous and opposition to God rather than opposition to their actions. God is then used as a shield. - It's like Bush saying if you oppose the war in Iraq you are not patriotic, or like when Hitler burned the Reichstag and declared marshall law denouncing any opposers to his ruling as unpatriotic, or when King's declared opposers as treasonous.

The song itself I don't believe is Blasphemous, but the title of the song rather eludes to the fact that it would be seen as Blasphemous because 2Pac questions this established principle.

Paragraph 1
Your born into a place of poverty and struggle, so you need to work hard, think hard, and get money to escape the poverty and be able to fund the struggle. Elevate yourself to a place where you have equal or greater power than the establishment before you can revolt. The world however is setup so that like crabs in a bucket the people you want to help will try to tear you down to get themselves ahead. There's also a play on words when he says "remember what my pops told me - blasphemy (blast for me)" which indicates that you need to use power and sometimes violence to overthrow the establishment but 2Pac questions if the Thug Life he's been born into will end him before he can do such. "This Thug Life'll be the death of me."

Chorus
People are using religion to cheat and steal from the poor people (i.e. people in the ghetto [but not just the ghetto]) while religion says that the godly should be helping the poor. Many people in the church are then using their position of trust and responsibility to do more harm than good which is the ultimate betrayal of the power bestowed upon them.

Paragraph 2
To go deeper into the song, 2Pac questions the very foundation of religion since the people who founded religion as we know it can't be trusted. Since we can't trust the founders of religion, it's quite possible "we're in hell already, our dumb asses not knowing."

Think of Santa Claus - parents tell kids "you better not shout, you better not cry, you better not pout I'm telling you why, Santa Claus is coming to town - he sees you when your sleeping, he knows when you're awake..." The very notion of religion seems similar in usage to controlling behavior for some while others take advantage.

"fighting devil niggas daily" - with many of 2pac songs, he was fighting the establishment and then the mainstream media crucified him i.e. you fight the establishment it comes back at you.

"They say Moses split the red-sea, I split a blunt and rolled it fat but I'm deadly." - I'm not the typical 'saint' but I'm able to make great change in the world.

"Babalyon beware, I'm coming for the Pharaoh's kids" - Babalyon is where it all started, and the kids who are the decedents of the 'kings' (i.e. the generation he's speaking to now) is going to be educated by him about the corruption so he's a threat to the establishment.

"in Jerusalem waiting for signs, God's coming she's just taking her time (hahahaha) - I think what 2Pac is saying here is we're all looking for signs of the Apocalypse as described in the bible, waiting for judgment day - the day God comes back to make judgment on how each of us has lived our life and end earth as we know it - the laughing may indicate 2Pac thinks this is a lie that we're being fed and the entire notion is humorous.

"Living by the Nile while the water flows, I'm contemplating plots wondering which door to go" - I'm sitting in the middle of it all wondering how to approach things and what do do about it exactly.

Paragraph 3
"The preacher want me buried why? Cause I know he a liar" -> 2Pac sees the corruption and what they are doing and the establishment (not necessarily the religious establishment but those political, religious, commerce leaders etc. that operate under the Machiavellian guise of morals and religion).

"Have you ever seen a crackhead, that's eternal fire" - We're being told to worry about hell but we've got people in hell right here on earth who aren't being helped.

"Why you got these kids minds, thinkin that they evil, while the preacher getting richer saying honor God's people" - It's hypocritical to do what is making yourself richer while saying honor God's people and telling people they are evil if they do what you are actually doing.

"Should we cry, when the Pope die, my request, we should cry if they cry when we buried Malcolm X" - Malcolm X was part of the struggle, the movement towards equality and away from elitism, and if the elite don't care when Malcolm X dies and that struggle ends, then they don't actually care about the 'people' and so the 'people' shouldn't care if the symbol for the status quo is alive or dead. 2Pac is saying we should cry when the pope dies, when 'they' cry when Malcolm X dies, because that would signal equality.

"Mama tell me am I wrong, is God just another cop, waitin to beat my ass if I don't go pop?
" - Here 2pac is talking more about the corruption of the society in which we live. The cops again are here in a position to help but often abuse this privileged, so it's a smaller scale of a similar abuse of power which has 2Pac feeling jaded to anyone in a position of power.

"Memories of a past time, givin up cash, to the leaders, knowin damn well, they ain't gonna feed us" - our entire life we work hard for a fraction of money from the elite and give it back to the elite by way of taxes, fees, banking, etc. and they keep the money constantly increasing the gap between the rich and the poor while the lower classes work for survival. He touches a bit on this in Hellraiser when he says "I'm starting to think all the rich in the world is safe, while the poor babies rushing into early graves."

"They say Jesus is a kind man, well he should understand times in this crime land" - If Jesus is who religion says he is, he should also understand the crimes and misjustice prevalent in our society, so if he does exist, he must do so out of the context of classic religion.

"Do whatchu gotta do but know you gotta change, Try to find a way to make it out the game, I leave this and hope God can see my heart is pure, Is heaven just another door? I leave this here, I leave this and hope God see my heart is pure" - After all the 'Blasphemy' that was talked about in the song, 2Pac comes back to say he does believe there's a God, but that religion and the people who abuse it are the problem, not the notion of God itself. And in this context, God should understand this song, he should understand 2Pac's heart, and know that it is in the purest of intentions that he is questioning the establishment to lead people towards a better position on earth by using their brain and think and question what they are being told and question what is considered 'just the way things are.'

"Is heaven just another door? And my people say" - This leads into the chorus which is again a prayer from the bible - powerful - stating that while 2Pac says all of the above in the song, still people sing the prayers of the bible like they've been taught.
 

Jon

Capo Di Capi Re
#31
# (British, pejorative, slang) An idiot; a fool.

Very profound Chronic, indeed the establishment makes tits out of us all.
 

Shadows

Well-Known Member
#34
"Mama tell me am I wrong, is God just another cop, waitin to beat my ass if I don't go pop?"
I think COP is not necessarily only cops in general but society too. If he goes outside of societies boundaries, and doesn't do what he is "supposed to do", everyone will try and put his name to shame every time they can.

For example,
If your black, you're expected to be a sports star, rapper that raps about dumb shit (not like Pac/Nas/Common) more like D4L type of shit. The reason why 'Pac was more feared than Nas and Common is obvious. EVERYONE loved and listened to what 'Pac had to say.

'Pac was going out of their plan and rapping about GOOD shit that had meaning - he didn't go 'pop' completely in ANY of his albums.
Pop stands for Shooting other black people or musically.


Tupac is not a sell out. So, he was asking his mom, will society damn him if he does? Not like he cares, b/c he knew the answer to that...his whole life.

It's blasphemy for even asking that.
 
#36
"They say Jesus is a kind man, well he should understand times in this crime land" - If Jesus is who religion says he is, he should also understand the crimes and misjustice prevalent in our society, so if he does exist, he must do so out of the context of classic religion.
i always thought he said CON man ?
which would take that line to a whole new level
 

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