Blasphemy Line
- Thread starter Diaz
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I dissagree, he isnt making any such comparison, he is putting both on an qual foot - both leaders of people, yet the pope is mourned and Malcolm X isnt - why? The reasons you find for that is up to u...you may find the reasons in race, personally i find the reasons in politics - Malcolm X wasnt a universal figure fighting for the universal good, he was fighting specifically for the emancipation of the poor. In that way i find good logic in what pac said since both were leaders fighting for a common good and both were limited by their ideology/religion. Yet one figure is more acceptable than the other - I dont think pac is making a comparison of the two leaders, rather how we as people view the leaders - he may be making a statement but not a comparison.
Only my opinion!
peace
MX!
Only my opinion!
peace
MX!
It could be said that Pac was highlighting the point that black people who work for good are not mourned yet white people who work for good are 'expected' to be mourned (media creates this feeling of shared mourning). Recognise both forces of good and mourn the loss of both force of good. this wasn't done, (a black person who worked for good wasn't mourned) so pac is asking to return the favour and hopefully highlight the hypocrisy.
I see some people need to brush up on their English. Pac rapped a simple line and everyone is now disagreeing over exactly what he said? Silleone is saying Pac said "don't mourn for the Pope," Rukas is saying that Pac said something along the lines of "Malcolm is equal to the pope," and others are making up their own things about ONE line.
What's the problem here? If we can't all agree on what Pac said, how can we agree on anything else?
He had to come up with an example for his verse. Regardless, there's nothing in the line to suggest he compared Pope to Malcolm X or visa versa.
That is simply not true. The only people that recognize him as an authority are the Catholics. No one else, including other Christians. The pope (any and all popes) doesn't represent anything but Catholicism.
Great, but let's talk about something. Why did he help those people and what about others that help needy people? Anyone with common sense will tell you that charity should be done in private, so no one else can see what you're doing. That is done for a simple reason: to dispel all rumors that you're doing charity for image.
Now, I am not going to hate on the Pope by saying he did charity for image, but he could have been a lot more discreet. What the ----- is the deal with him being so open about his donations and stuff? I understand he was on TV all the time and people tracked him 24/7, but he could have sent out someone else to do the charity.
Now his past has cought up with him. Now he's dead, people are listing everything he's done for others and they're giving him points.
Let me ask you this, where did he get the money for donations and who paid for everything else? The pope out of his own bank account or the church? I mean, everyone can go out and donate other people's money, but can you do your own?
For those that will say the Pope had no money, there are different ways of helping others.
The question is sincerity. How sincere was he in helping the people of Africa? We all know the story of Christian missionares going out to other countries to "help" people. The next day, to everyone's surprise, there are converts. I wonder why. Why does it sound like Jesus (peace be upon him) was the only one who helped others without needing recognition or converting them?
Get over it already. That's not what Pac said. He gave two examples of both communities.
I will compare Malcolm X to the Pope because I am quite confident that Malcolm didn't do anything to promote his image. I am not sure if I can say the same about the Pope. Let me make this clear...I don't know why the Pope did what he did. I am not saying he did it for image. I am saying I don't know what to believe.
You're like 21 or something, right? How would you know about Malcolm X's generation? History books tell us he was hated by whites of his generation. Silleone was wrong when he said whites don't hate him today. So what? Pac wasn't talking about today.
Uhhh, why are we talking about today? The line refers to someone from a long while ago.
Exactly. That's all the quote is about. If Malcolm could get an hour of mourning, TV, or radio, that would be fine. But what did he get in comparison to the Pope? Nothing, because the Pope was on TV for days on end, and will probably be talked about for atleast another week.
Pac asked a question: why isn't anyone crying for X? You have tears. We've seen them when the Pope died. Now, where are your tears for X?
Another good point. X was much too busy with one cause already, and he didn't have the backing of a large church. I find what X did a lot more impressive than what the Pope did. He went all out, raised hell, and did all he could for his cause with his own money and maybe a few pennies from others. What did the Pope do? Probably all the money came from the Church, and journalists would give him all the airtime he needed.
If one man (X) made a ship all by himself, and another man (Pope) made a larger ship with the help of many people, who is more impressive? The single man who made the smaller ship, because he is the one who gave more effort.
What's the problem here? If we can't all agree on what Pac said, how can we agree on anything else?
He had to come up with an example for his verse. Regardless, there's nothing in the line to suggest he compared Pope to Malcolm X or visa versa.
That is simply not true. The only people that recognize him as an authority are the Catholics. No one else, including other Christians. The pope (any and all popes) doesn't represent anything but Catholicism.
Great, but let's talk about something. Why did he help those people and what about others that help needy people? Anyone with common sense will tell you that charity should be done in private, so no one else can see what you're doing. That is done for a simple reason: to dispel all rumors that you're doing charity for image.
Now, I am not going to hate on the Pope by saying he did charity for image, but he could have been a lot more discreet. What the ----- is the deal with him being so open about his donations and stuff? I understand he was on TV all the time and people tracked him 24/7, but he could have sent out someone else to do the charity.
Now his past has cought up with him. Now he's dead, people are listing everything he's done for others and they're giving him points.
Let me ask you this, where did he get the money for donations and who paid for everything else? The pope out of his own bank account or the church? I mean, everyone can go out and donate other people's money, but can you do your own?
For those that will say the Pope had no money, there are different ways of helping others.
The question is sincerity. How sincere was he in helping the people of Africa? We all know the story of Christian missionares going out to other countries to "help" people. The next day, to everyone's surprise, there are converts. I wonder why. Why does it sound like Jesus (peace be upon him) was the only one who helped others without needing recognition or converting them?
Get over it already. That's not what Pac said. He gave two examples of both communities.
I will compare Malcolm X to the Pope because I am quite confident that Malcolm didn't do anything to promote his image. I am not sure if I can say the same about the Pope. Let me make this clear...I don't know why the Pope did what he did. I am not saying he did it for image. I am saying I don't know what to believe.
You're like 21 or something, right? How would you know about Malcolm X's generation? History books tell us he was hated by whites of his generation. Silleone was wrong when he said whites don't hate him today. So what? Pac wasn't talking about today.
Uhhh, why are we talking about today? The line refers to someone from a long while ago.
Exactly. That's all the quote is about. If Malcolm could get an hour of mourning, TV, or radio, that would be fine. But what did he get in comparison to the Pope? Nothing, because the Pope was on TV for days on end, and will probably be talked about for atleast another week.
Pac asked a question: why isn't anyone crying for X? You have tears. We've seen them when the Pope died. Now, where are your tears for X?
Another good point. X was much too busy with one cause already, and he didn't have the backing of a large church. I find what X did a lot more impressive than what the Pope did. He went all out, raised hell, and did all he could for his cause with his own money and maybe a few pennies from others. What did the Pope do? Probably all the money came from the Church, and journalists would give him all the airtime he needed.
If one man (X) made a ship all by himself, and another man (Pope) made a larger ship with the help of many people, who is more impressive? The single man who made the smaller ship, because he is the one who gave more effort.
Malcolm X is mourned, by both white people and black people, but what Tupac is saying, is that, "we (black people) shouldnt mourn the Pope (a leader for white people) if he died, because they (white people) didnt mourn Malcolm X (a leader for black people)." That statement is wrong. Firstly plenty of white people look up to Malcolm and mourn him. Secondly, the Pope was not a leader for white people, he is a leader for all people, and therefor the comparison is invalid.
That would be true, if not for Pac obviously making it a race issue. He says they, and we, as in whites, and blacks. In his line Malcolm is for the blacks, he is theirs, so the Pope is for the whites, he is theres. He is saying they didnt mourn ours, so we cant be expected to mourn theirs. Which would be a valid argument, had the Pope been for whites. But Pac was wrong, he misunderstood what the Pope was about, or just didnt know all the good he did in the world for all races.
So no, I dont agree with the line, it labels the Pope a man for white people, which is wrong. And with that basic principle being wrong, it throws off the whole argument.
The dude is right. That is what the line is saying.
That's not what the line said. Feel bad for white people all you want. This not about that. Pac is saying white people should have given Malcolm X a few tears, just like some black people did for the Pope. The black people, from back the day, would have cried for the Pope, so why wouldn't the white people from back then cry for Malcolm X? I know...its because they didn't like him. That's the difference.
Bill Gates is so filthy rich that he would NEVER have to worry about his finances, and you're saying he's philanthropist to sell computers? Let someone take airplanes to Microsoft and bomb them. That still would not crumble Gates' money. Let someone blow up all his computers. That still would not do anything to what he has now.
You must be joking if you say Gates is doing this for money. Say that he's doing this for image/PR, but don't say its for money.
That's not what the line said. Feel bad for white people all you want. This not about that. Pac is saying white people should have given Malcolm X a few tears, just like some black people did for the Pope. The black people, from back the day, would have cried for the Pope, so why wouldn't the white people from back then cry for Malcolm X? I know...its because they didn't like him. That's the difference.
Bill Gates is so filthy rich that he would NEVER have to worry about his finances, and you're saying he's philanthropist to sell computers? Let someone take airplanes to Microsoft and bomb them. That still would not crumble Gates' money. Let someone blow up all his computers. That still would not do anything to what he has now.
You must be joking if you say Gates is doing this for money. Say that he's doing this for image/PR, but don't say its for money.
Not what I meant, read post above.
You're mistaken, people of various faiths view him as a spiritual leader, both Christian and not. While they do not see him as a leader of their movement, they see him as a leader in example of how to live ones life and be tolerent of others. Jews, Muslims and Hindus, both followers of those faiths and spiritual leaders, saw the Pope as a spiritual leader also, as he did with their leaders. He did not discriminate against people, and while officially he is only leader of the Catholic Church, he used his leadership to help people of all faiths, and thus, can be said he is a leader of many.
That is only the case with donating money to charity, not leading by action. I am not talking about charity work so I dont know why you are, I am talking about helping people.
Ill give you an example of how helping people, while being in the public eye is a good thing.
In 1979 when the Pope went to Poland, then under the communist regime, he used his public figure to show people around the world that Poland was ready to stand up against their Communism. This gave people hope, it brought light to the issues at hand, and forced people to pay attention.
Its like Pac said, when he raps about violence, he isnt doing it to make gangster rap, he is doing it to bring attention to the wrongs in his community. The Pope used his global image to bring attention to the wrongs in the world. If he did everything in silence like you suggested, people wouldnt know these other people and issues existed.
No one is talking about Charity work. Read above.
You obviously have no understanding of what the Pope is. His own bank account? He has no bank account of his own. He has no money, no assets, nothing.
And we're not even talking about donating money, I dont see why you are focusing on that. Thats not what made him great, and I didnt see him flaunting the donation of money once. I think you need to either read up on the Pope's life, or go watch a documentary I am sure ones on TV.
Exactly and thats what he did. I think you are really misinformed or just do not understand.
I suppose you think he also converted all those Jews, Palestinians, Muslims and Hindus he visited right?
He made it racial, read above.
As Pope, you are automatically the most known face in the world, how much more promotion can you do? THe Pope promoted what he thought is right and truth, if you dont agree thats fine, but to suggest that he somehow did what he did for his own fame, is well, frankly its laughable at best.
Im sure, statistically speaking, not every white person in the USA hated him.
Its irrelevent anyway, thats not what the quote was about. Read post above.
Because people believe in anything Pac says like it was the word of God, and hence chose not to feel sad for the Pope or say RIP and instead quoted a Pac line they didnt even understand. Pac said it, so it must be right.
Some peoples loyalty to Tupac borders on false idol worship.
Im not saying yours does, but thats why this thread is here and why we are talking about this now.
How can the line be about that? Pac said it in 1996, the Pope was alive, he was not being mourned at all. How could Pac know what was going to happen.
The line is not about that at all, it is about black leaders, and white leaders, which is wrong in itself, and labeling the Pope a white leader, which is totally wrong. He didnt lead white people, he led people.
The Pope was alive when Pac made the track, so there is no way that is what the line is about.
The previous Pope passed away when Pac was like 7, i doubt he remembered it, and i doubt the reaction was that big.
You're making the mistake of interpreting the line based on recent events.
No one is denying the importance of X.
If they both made a ship that housed, protected and provided for others, it doesnt matter, the important thing is that because of them, there are two ships.
You're mistaken, people of various faiths view him as a spiritual leader, both Christian and not. While they do not see him as a leader of their movement, they see him as a leader in example of how to live ones life and be tolerent of others. Jews, Muslims and Hindus, both followers of those faiths and spiritual leaders, saw the Pope as a spiritual leader also, as he did with their leaders. He did not discriminate against people, and while officially he is only leader of the Catholic Church, he used his leadership to help people of all faiths, and thus, can be said he is a leader of many.
That is only the case with donating money to charity, not leading by action. I am not talking about charity work so I dont know why you are, I am talking about helping people.
Ill give you an example of how helping people, while being in the public eye is a good thing.
In 1979 when the Pope went to Poland, then under the communist regime, he used his public figure to show people around the world that Poland was ready to stand up against their Communism. This gave people hope, it brought light to the issues at hand, and forced people to pay attention.
Its like Pac said, when he raps about violence, he isnt doing it to make gangster rap, he is doing it to bring attention to the wrongs in his community. The Pope used his global image to bring attention to the wrongs in the world. If he did everything in silence like you suggested, people wouldnt know these other people and issues existed.
No one is talking about Charity work. Read above.
You obviously have no understanding of what the Pope is. His own bank account? He has no bank account of his own. He has no money, no assets, nothing.
And we're not even talking about donating money, I dont see why you are focusing on that. Thats not what made him great, and I didnt see him flaunting the donation of money once. I think you need to either read up on the Pope's life, or go watch a documentary I am sure ones on TV.
Exactly and thats what he did. I think you are really misinformed or just do not understand.
I suppose you think he also converted all those Jews, Palestinians, Muslims and Hindus he visited right?
He made it racial, read above.
As Pope, you are automatically the most known face in the world, how much more promotion can you do? THe Pope promoted what he thought is right and truth, if you dont agree thats fine, but to suggest that he somehow did what he did for his own fame, is well, frankly its laughable at best.
Im sure, statistically speaking, not every white person in the USA hated him.
Its irrelevent anyway, thats not what the quote was about. Read post above.
Because people believe in anything Pac says like it was the word of God, and hence chose not to feel sad for the Pope or say RIP and instead quoted a Pac line they didnt even understand. Pac said it, so it must be right.
Some peoples loyalty to Tupac borders on false idol worship.
Im not saying yours does, but thats why this thread is here and why we are talking about this now.
How can the line be about that? Pac said it in 1996, the Pope was alive, he was not being mourned at all. How could Pac know what was going to happen.
The line is not about that at all, it is about black leaders, and white leaders, which is wrong in itself, and labeling the Pope a white leader, which is totally wrong. He didnt lead white people, he led people.
The Pope was alive when Pac made the track, so there is no way that is what the line is about.
The previous Pope passed away when Pac was like 7, i doubt he remembered it, and i doubt the reaction was that big.
You're making the mistake of interpreting the line based on recent events.
No one is denying the importance of X.
If they both made a ship that housed, protected and provided for others, it doesnt matter, the important thing is that because of them, there are two ships.
But Rukas you may see him as a black leader, but i dont - his work is invaluable to me as a Marxist, Malcolm X stood for so much more than being a black leader, in the same way as the pope stood for much more than catholic leader, If you decide to view him in those closed terms that is up to you, but i dont, and doubt tupac did as well. But as u do view the quote in those terms your assesment of the quote stands ground, but to me the logic of the quote is sound and has nothing to do with race.
I dont see how u can call the pope a leader for all but then only look at Malcolm X as a leader for black people? you are doing what u accuse pac of doing!
peace
MX!
I dont see how u can call the pope a leader for all but then only look at Malcolm X as a leader for black people? you are doing what u accuse pac of doing!
peace
MX!
Grrrr.... I dont view X as a leader for only blacks, and I dont view the Pope as a leader for whites. Pac did, by using the term, we and theirs to describe them. We, as in X, as in Blacks. Their, as in whites, as in their Pope. I dont agree with it thus I think what Pac was saying wrong.
I never said thats what I thought, I said that is what Pac thought.
I never said thats what I thought, I said that is what Pac thought.
He was the spiritual leader of his own religion. I don't know about Jews and Hindus, but I know, for sure, he's no leader of any Muslim, and I don't see him as more of an example than Bill Gates. Yeah, I like the man (Gates - its obvious by now).
Pac had some respectable qualities such as giving back to the community, but I won't call him a role model, nor will I call the Pope a rolemodel. I love Michael Jackson, but I won't call him a rolemodel either. Great, you did a thing or two that is positive, but don't be so quick to call yourself a rolemodel.
I am not too sure about that. I'll elaborate another time.
You're right. I shouldn't have used that word. Replace the word charity with "helping others."
What does that have to do with Africa/South America? Thats a good example of helping others in public, but what about Africa? People already know some parts are pretty needy.
I'll cut this post off here....I'll get back to the rest.
Pac had some respectable qualities such as giving back to the community, but I won't call him a role model, nor will I call the Pope a rolemodel. I love Michael Jackson, but I won't call him a rolemodel either. Great, you did a thing or two that is positive, but don't be so quick to call yourself a rolemodel.
I am not too sure about that. I'll elaborate another time.
You're right. I shouldn't have used that word. Replace the word charity with "helping others."
What does that have to do with Africa/South America? Thats a good example of helping others in public, but what about Africa? People already know some parts are pretty needy.
I'll cut this post off here....I'll get back to the rest.
Yeah I just finished that book, so I thought, oh that's interesting, but it's ok Yeshua, as far as I know Camerlengo Martinez is not as psychotic as "Camerlengo Ventresca" or whatever his name was....lol. There's no great coincidence.
(Although Ken did prophetize in WoW that the Illuminati was gathering in the ranks of communistic John Lennon fans....)
(Although Ken did prophetize in WoW that the Illuminati was gathering in the ranks of communistic John Lennon fans....)
i havent yet read everything in here but my view of the line was like...i dont think pac neccesary knew much about the pope and pope was like this worldly, political, biggest religious figure (and this song blasphemy), like a face, and he was comparin him and everythin to malcolm with his centralized struggle for blacks, & mainly any oppressed. pope was a great man and lookin at his achievements and things he did you have to be in awe but to what pac was sayin in the line, the song, and everythin pope didn't really do anything for the US like malcolm or did as much groundwork for everythin pac was talkin about and talkin about how these figures didnt get the proper recognition and still dont. with malcolm its in the likes of a martin luther king or any of the other mainstream activists in the day , in america. and of course its not like bein on one side, lookin on the other with it nobody denys and i dont think pac is denyin any good either of the men did (pope, malcolm) or even a martin luther its not like he didnt recognize that. as far as it bein a black and white thing, i dont look at it as shallow as black people shouldnt cry for the white pope because white people didnt cry for the black malcolm. he was just talkin about the good of both men, and how each one is perceived (or will be perceived) in the world, and in the media especially. mentionin his help in Africa and everythin obvious enough, but to pac how do u think it was really connected as well. its not about disregardin anybodys work, or sayin they disregarded anythin but what they did, and what they didnt and in relation to everythin else. its not like ok look how much he helped these africans so clearly he wasnt 'a leader for the whites' but hes still a big figure and its a given to mourn for popes because they are popes (john paul was one of a kind though, clearly)...but i was thinkin of it as a different kind of scale. but its still a toss up..
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