Vegan is the new Viagra

[raywaters11]

Legit question: do you guys ever crave meat or were you big meat eaters before your conversion? I'd be interested in doing a vegetarian thing just because of how healthy it seems (though it still seems exhausting trying to find protein replacements) but I just don't have the discipline to swear off meat. I like chicken and steak too much.
If you were fans of meat before, I don't see how you do it.

 

[Rukas]

If you fucked around in the sunlight for 20 minutes or so, you'd get enough Vitamin D. No need for supplements or milk.

My parents have been eating soy based mock-meat things for years. I'm talking 15+. I eat it occasionally and it's alright. I do put a little hot sauce on it to flavor it up, but at the end of the day, I prefer the taste of meat. If I am really motivated, though, I could live off of Boca burgers and Tofurky sausages and all that. Tofu is pretty damn good too. Anyone had tofu noodles?

My point? There is none. I get plenty of protein and I'm really not picky in the ways I get it. My dad doesn't eat meat at all. He's not vegan, though, and he drinks milk in his cereal and tea but doesn't do fish or eggs. He lives well. His source of protein comes from the Indian dishes my mom and he eat. He's no bodybuilder, though.

The mock meat is pretty good. And I actually love tofu and bean curd and eat a lot of it in stir frys (along with chicken).

The point is this, you can survive eating low protein diets. Sure. But Casey acts like Veganism is sooo healthy and better for the body than eating a balanced diet and the fact is that it is not. The point is you can survive eating junk food as well. "Survive" is relative. The fact is you can not build muscle without protein. That is a biological scientific fact. The scientific fact is also that the best source of complete protein is meat, like chicken, tuna, beef. Yes, you can get protein from greens, but hardly enough, and legume proteins in beans are not complete proteins. They are not the same as meat based proteins. They are not as good for you as meat proteins. They are not complete proteins. They do not give you all the amino acids you need. These are scientific facts. The only non-meat source of a complete protein is soy based protein, which is also high in estrogens, which is bad for men (bitch tits) AND can lead to tumors in women.

When Casey goes on about eating beans and how they contain protein, sure, but they lack amino acids. They may have 12gs of protein per cup of beings, but they dont have any methionine in them, and amino acids are VITAL in living healthy and building muscle. Grains lack lysine. Etc etc.

This is a perfect example of Casey twisting the facts to fit his belief, just like the Religious people he hates do. So yes, vegan diets contain proteins, but he forgets to mention they lack essential amino acids.

I am sure he will reply with some more twisted facts based on what he already accepts on blind faith, because whether he admits it or can see it or not, this is his Religion now and he will continue acting like a blind Religious extremist even though the facts just dont add up.

For the record, Ive lived a vegan lifestyle, and while that was healthier for me than the junk food or eat whatever lifestyle I lived before, it caused my body to break down muscle and get weak.

The BEST diet is a BALANCED diet, fresh foods, no junk, etc. Fuck the hype, veganism is not a complete diet, and while it IS healthy in some regards, in others it is not.

Veganism is a good moral choice in regards to animal rights and one I applaud, but trying to bend that moral choice into preaching that it is also HEALTHIER is just a lie. The ONLY legitimate reason for being a Vegan is for animal rights because as a health choice, against a healthy balanced diet, it just doesnt stack up and I just wish Veganists like Casey would stop pretending it does.

 

[Rukas]

Legit question: do you guys ever crave meat or were you big meat eaters before your conversion? I'd be interested in doing a vegetarian thing just because of how healthy it seems (though it still seems exhausting trying to find protein replacements) but I just don't have the discipline to swear off meat. I like chicken and steak too much.
If you were fans of meat before, I don't see how you do it.

I craved meat like things but it was basically junk food I craved. Weirdly I craved crispy meat. Mock duck is AMAZING to curb those cravings.

If you want to be healthy just eat a balanced diet and fuck the hype, seriously.

 

[raywaters11]

I eat healthy now, I'm nowhere close to being fat and exercise a lot (much more than I'd like to) but idk, vegetarianism sounds so clean.
I'm never going to do it. Or even attempt it. Was just curious if vegetarians ever craved a steak or burger.

 

[S O F I]

If you fucked around in the sunlight for 20 minutes or so, you'd get enough Vitamin D.

Do you have any idea what that means in Seattle?

 

[Rukas]

I eat healthy now, I'm nowhere close to being fat and exercise a lot (much more than I'd like to) but idk, vegetarianism sounds so clean.
I'm never going to do it. Or even attempt it. Was just curious if vegetarians ever craved a steak or burger.

I found it easier than quitting smoking.

You crave the fuck out of icecream and chocolate though or a good kebab when you're out drinking

 

[dilla]

Do you have any idea what that means in Seattle?

I was thinking of that as well, but I'm sure staying out a little longer wouldn't hurt either. I'm sure the recommendation of exposure to sunlight doesn't get cooked to a crisp like the Latin whore from my high school do (and thus look like lobsters), but just light in general. It's not dark in Seattle all the time, is it? Or just drink a damn glass of milk then. Shit. Making this all hard.

 

[dilla]

The mock meat is pretty good. And I actually love tofu and bean curd and eat a lot of it in stir frys (along with chicken).

The point is this, you can survive eating low protein diets. Sure. But Casey acts like Veganism is sooo healthy and better for the body than eating a balanced diet and the fact is that it is not. The point is you can survive eating junk food as well. "Survive" is relative. The fact is you can not build muscle without protein. That is a biological scientific fact. The scientific fact is also that the best source of complete protein is meat, like chicken, tuna, beef. Yes, you can get protein from greens, but hardly enough, and legume proteins in beans are not complete proteins. They are not the same as meat based proteins. They are not as good for you as meat proteins. They are not complete proteins. They do not give you all the amino acids you need. These are scientific facts. The only non-meat source of a complete protein is soy based protein, which is also high in estrogens, which is bad for men (bitch tits) AND can lead to tumors in women.

When Casey goes on about eating beans and how they contain protein, sure, but they lack amino acids. They may have 12gs of protein per cup of beings, but they dont have any methionine in them, and amino acids are VITAL in living healthy and building muscle. Grains lack lysine. Etc etc.

This is a perfect example of Casey twisting the facts to fit his belief, just like the Religious people he hates do. So yes, vegan diets contain proteins, but he forgets to mention they lack essential amino acids.

I am sure he will reply with some more twisted facts based on what he already accepts on blind faith, because whether he admits it or can see it or not, this is his Religion now and he will continue acting like a blind Religious extremist even though the facts just dont add up.

For the record, Ive lived a vegan lifestyle, and while that was healthier for me than the junk food or eat whatever lifestyle I lived before, it caused my body to break down muscle and get weak.

The BEST diet is a BALANCED diet, fresh foods, no junk, etc. Fuck the hype, veganism is not a complete diet, and while it IS healthy in some regards, in others it is not.

Veganism is a good moral choice in regards to animal rights and one I applaud, but trying to bend that moral choice into preaching that it is also HEALTHIER is just a lie. The ONLY legitimate reason for being a Vegan is for animal rights because as a health choice, against a healthy balanced diet, it just doesnt stack up and I just wish Veganists like Casey would stop pretending it does.

No doubt. If being vegan was so great, my dad would surely have converted. He's 95% there. Just cut out the milk completely and then pretend he's saving the world by not eating a cow. Boom. He's done. But he's told me when I asked about it that it's still not a good idea. He emphasizes the balanced diet too, at least verbally. While I was away at college, I cooked for myself (didn't eat out much) but it became a matter of simply cooking a ton of food and having it last three or four meals so I could do other stuff. So it basically became empty carbs and beef (chicken didn't quite taste right frozen).

So now that I'm home for the next two months, I've definitely tried cutting out the beef and other read meat. I eat pasta, but whole wheat, and that also maybe twice a week. I make a good bit of almond milk and fruit smoothies. I was shocked that one glass made me feel like I'd eaten a decent sized meal.

Still on the chips and occasional soda, though. Baby steps. No smoking and now I just gotta hit the treadmill 7 times a week.

And you're right about the amino acids in meat. It was something I picked up particularly in the nutritional aspect of my physiology book. Nuts and legumes have a good bit of protein and a good bit of fat. Can't remember if it's "good" fat or not.

 

[Rukas]

^^ It's good fat yeah, they just lack the aminos. Glad you actually opened a book and READ about it yourself. Major props.

 

[Casey]

LOL at blind faith, as if I don't have a whole stack of vegan books on my shelf. Lack of amino acids? Simply not true. The soy/estrogen thing is a complete myth, if you did some ACTUAL research, what you'd find is that all the "studies" in that regard that claim that "might be the case" are funded by massive dairy farm corporations.

How do you explain the fact that there is a FAR LOWER cancer rate and the men don't have, as you so pleasantly say, "bitch tits" in China and Japan, where the soy consumption is quite literally 4-5x higher than it is in the West? Sorry, your lack of logic shows you up again.

How about this... how do you explain not only the presence, but high success rate, of vegan bodybuilders? What about the vegan mixed martial arts fighters? Those are highly competitive fields. If what you claim is true, they would be at a competitive disadvantage. The fact remains that they are not. And you keep talking about building muscle as if that's what everyone wants to do. I certainly don't. I'm skinny but toned as fuck, I don't want to look like Hulk fucking Hogan, no problem if someone does, but most people don't.

I don't need to spend hours convincing anyone here that you're wrong because it's obvious from these simple things. Go read any article at VEGANBODYBUILDING.COM

Oh..... and since you keep blathering on about soy this and soy that, as if being vegan automatically means you have no choice but to eat soy, you might enjoy this. It's a high-protein, high-calorie, vegan bodybuilding nutrition program that is completely soy free.

2 cups oatmeal
2 vegan pancakes
Hemp protein drink (Vega, or other)
16oz hempmilk or almond milk
Multivitamin supplement

10AM
2 energy/protein bars (Organic Food Bar, Vega Bar, Smart Monkey Bar)
Hemp/rice protein smoothie (orange juice, protein powder, strawberries, banana, ice cubes)
2 Mangos
16oz orange juice
16oz water with L-Glutamine

1PM
4 slices of vegan pizza
Pea protein smoothie (hempmilk, yellow pea protein powder, strawberries, banana, ice cubes)
Tortillas and hummus
Mixed nuts (almonds, cashews, walnuts, hazelnuts)
16oz water

4PM
Veggies with coconut oil or almond butter
3 bananas
16oz hempmik
16oz water

7PM
Large Veggie burrito (brown rice, black beans, pinto beans, avocado, tomato, onion, tortilla)
Summer squash
Green salad
Avocado spread on flax crackers or celery sticks
8oz pineapple juice
16oz water with L-Glutamine

10PM
Hemp/pea protein smoothie (hempmilk, hemp/pea protein powder, strawberries, banana, ice cubes)
Yams or sweet potatoes
Vitamin and mineral supplements

You're welcome.

PS - Veganism is not my religion, Prince is my religion, I bow down at the purple altar of His Royal Badness, hallowed be his name, all praises to the true funk solider born in the holy land of North Minneapolis, disrespect and get checked with the sharp end of the Symbol guitar while the Linndrums clap and the Oberheims squeal the most heaven-opening solos you ever did hear, AOOWAAAAHHHHH!!!!

 

[Bobby Sands]

 

[dilla]

I couldn't help but notice there were five meals a day. Kinda like the way Muslims pray five times a day. Religion. And organized religion at that.

Rukas, why are you surprised I picked up a book? As opposed to what other method of learning about these things?

 

[Casey]

I couldn't help but notice there were five meals a day.

In the list I just posted? Six, actually. And that's fairly routine regardless of diet - it's a meal plan for bodybuilders looking to bulk up. Me personally, I have two, sometimes three meals a day.

 

[dilla]

Oh, wait, the breakfast didn't have a time. I was going just by the times in the headers for each meal.

And why the fuck would someone eat three bananas in a meal? I feel that a bodybuilder would hate that diet really fast.

 

[Ristol]

I heard if a Jewish person eats three bananas in one meal he can fly. Is this true?

 

[Pittsey]

Tuna is a great source of good fats and protein.

Too much mercury though. Right?

Also... I am looking to improve the healthiness of my diet, although it's already pretty healthy... So I like these threads.

 

[dilla]

Too much mercury though. Right?

Also... I am looking to improve the healthiness of my diet, although it's already pretty healthy... So I like these threads.

It seems like a mix of everything is really the ideal thing. You need a little meat, but not too much. if you need a considerable amount of protein, maybe some meat and then the rest be soy or tempeh (not soy, right?) to get the rest of proteins and avoid consuming too many fats from meat.

 

[Jokerman]

Ok, I see I need to come here and weigh in on this debate. I take no sides and both are right and wrong.

Grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, and green leafy vegetables are absolutely packed with protein. It would be almost impossible to eat a 2,000 calorie vegetable-based diet that includes all five categories of vegetarian foods without ingesting 50 grams of complete protein.

Of course more calories will give you more, but not anywhere near the amount that Rukas believes he needs to consume to bulk up. I would question the need for this amount, and the whole bulking up thing. It might look good, but it's not ideally healthy. Research has shown that too much protein has been actively connected to tissue-breakdown diseases such as arthritis. When you eat a meal heavily laden with animal protein, it overloads the body. Concentrated protein has been shown not only to leach calcium from the bones, which leads to osteoporosis, but it also damages the kidneys by clogging the filters. This has been known to lead to kidney failure.

But if building muscle is his priority, then his body and his experience has to be the ultimate source of what he needs.

I recommend experimenting with less and seeing where it gets you. To the amount of protein you want, you can either use powders or animal sources. Healthwise, there's nothing wrong with some organic grass-fed chicken or turkey. Fish would have been ideal if not for the mercury. Catfish, croaker, mackerel, whitefish, whiting, and sardines have the lowest levels. Unfortunately, tuna is high.

If done right, a person can get all he needs on a vegan diet. But if done right, a person can include some meat in the diet and be healthy too.

Now for the issue of soy. The whole anti-soy campaign began with the Weston Price Foundation. Price was a dentist who said some things about how what primitive people ate was best for us. He died in 1948 and had nothing to say about soy. But the founders of his foundation, Sally Fallon and Mary Enig, have been disseminating anti-soy messages since the late 90s. They have also been very effective in advocating a meat, butter, and raw milk-centered diet. Anti-soy has become their religion. Unfortunately, a lot of self-made health gurus have been influenced by their writings about soy, and so further disseminate it.

I researched the entire scientific literature on soy and found 5,000 studies showing that soy was beneficial and about 28 showing that there might be some problems. Then I excluded any studies that the soy industry actually paid for, and we still have 99% positive. The type of estrogen in soy is weak pytoestrogen which actually inhibit the effects of strong estrogen and lowers breast cancer risk in women. And, no, your body is not going to be more like a woman's because of the pytoestrogen in soy. It doesn't work on the body like estrogen. Soy in the diet is very beneficial. Now of course certain individuals can have allergies or be sensitive to soy like they can to anything. But that doesn't condemn it for everyone.

 

[Rukas]

LOL at blind faith, as if I don't have a whole stack of vegan books on my shelf. Lack of amino acids? Simply not true.

Yes. It is.

The soy/estrogen thing is a complete myth, if you did some ACTUAL research, what you'd find is that all the "studies" in that regard that claim that "might be the case" are funded by massive dairy farm corporations.

Soy contains isoflavones (a phytoestrogen). You say the anti soy debate is funded by diary farmers, I say the pro soy debate is funded by soy manufacturers and vegans. Still, soy contains isoflavones and it MIGHT cause problems, as you said. Might doesnt mean wont. It's better to be cautious no?

How do you explain the fact that there is a FAR LOWER cancer rate and the men don't have, as you so pleasantly say, "bitch tits" in China and Japan, where the soy consumption is quite literally 4-5x higher than it is in the West? Sorry, your lack of logic shows you up again.

Different genetics. Adaptation. Other differences in diet. Difference in lifestyle. Difference in environment. All those also factor into the fact that physically they are smaller people. So can I say that soy eating means people will be smaller?

What about India? One of the highest cancer rates in all of the world, if not the highest right now.

How about this... how do you explain not only the presence, but high success rate, of vegan bodybuilders?

Arnold could have become a vegan in his prime, and you'd call him a "vegan Bodybuilder," even though to get to that point he ate a lot of meat and meat based supplements. Not to mention, dat der cell tech.

What about the vegan mixed martial arts fighters? Those are highly competitive fields. If what you claim is true, they would be at a competitive disadvantage. The fact remains that they are not. And you keep talking about building muscle as if that's what everyone wants to do. I certainly don't. I'm skinny but toned as fuck, I don't want to look like Hulk fucking Hogan, no problem if someone does, but most people don't.

Not to get personal but judging from your fat chin and poor posture I doubt that you're "toned as fuck."

I don't need to spend hours convincing anyone here that you're wrong because it's obvious from these simple things. Go read any article at VEGANBODYBUILDING.COM

Dont you think that source might be a bit biased? It's like a Christian pointing to the vatican website to prove his point.

Oh..... and since you keep blathering on about soy this and soy that, as if being vegan automatically means you have no choice but to eat soy, you might enjoy this. It's a high-protein, high-calorie, vegan bodybuilding nutrition program that is completely soy free.

Actually, and now you're just starting to piss me off with your one sided trolling bullshit, you're the one BLATHERING on about soy. I mentioned it in passing along with beans and lentils. You chose to write a whole fucking essay about it. I also actually said that I love tofu and bean curd and only drink soy milk.

 

[dilla]

He's either looking for validation for being a vegan, or he's trolling. Or he's obsessed with this shit. Every fifth thread is religion or veganism. It's annoying. It's better this place be lifeless than beat this dead horse.