US Debt

[Pittsey]

Are you fucking kidding me....! No wonder it's worth the slaughter of innocent people to keep the dollar as the reserve currency. How long can this form of economics go on?



After years of debate over US debt, lawmakers may be underestimating the amount that the US owes creditors from its off-balance sheet calculations. The new figure may be in the tens of trillions of dollars.


A new study from the University of California-San Diego indicates that the US may be 70 trillion dollars in debt. That’s six times more than what is usually reported. The comparison looks at the US’ off-balance sheet liabilities verus the on-balance sheet reports.

The study examines federal liabilities that aren’t included in the government’s officially reported numbers including housing, other loan guarantees, deposit insurance, actions taken by the Federal Reserve, and government trust funds.

The outstanding US Treasury debt is nearly $17 trillion. Of that, almost $5 trillion is money the U.S. owes itself. Not surprisingly, Medicare and Social Security represent the bulk of future U.S. debt obligations. Medicare costs the nation $27.6 trillion and Social Security costs $26.5 trillion.

However, the study's $70 trillion debt estimate may actually be overly optimistic and again, understating. A Boston University economics professor who served on President Ronald Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisers, says the nation’s true debt obligations are three times that figure--That would put US debt at about 210 Trillion dollars. A far cry from the near 17 trillion dollar amount tossed about, around the nation’s capital.

 

[ARon]

The amount is so high that's it doesn't even matter.

I really wouldn't be mad if suddenly the dollar collapsed and our currency was worth absolutely nothing

 

[Pittsey]

The amount is so high that's it doesn't even matter.

I really wouldn't be mad if suddenly the dollar collapsed and our currency was worth absolutely nothing

It can't happen. It would affect every developed country in the world. They all have huge amounts of money stuck in the dollar. That's because it is the reserve currency and necessary to purchase oil.

 

[ARon]

Yeah I know. That's a reason many people believe we continue to wage wars in the middle east, which makes sense. There is just so much wrong with our system I don;t even know where to start, my own pockets I suppose

 

[masta247]

Well, they killed Gadaffi and overthrown the government because of the African oil currency thing. It's funny because it's really true, everyone knows about this and nobody does anything. They always raided economically (oil) significant countries when they reached a point of making a significant decision regarding it that could influence dollar's status quo. It's something we're going to read about in history books, most people know this now but it seems like it's fine, because it's the US and they have good PR.
The US have been prolonging their economic collapse for so long, and it still seems to work, so they're sticking to that strategy. It will suck when everything finally goes to shits though.

 

[dilla]

That's why I use Bitcoin. (not really)

 

[S O F I]

We are too big to fail

 

[ARon]

Bitcoin is going to be uselss now that Tor got compromised

 

[Pittsey]

We are too big war mongerers to fail

Fixed.

 

[masta247]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...n-another-secure-e-mail-service-goes-offline/

I thought this was related to what's going on in 'Merica. It's the third major e-mail company shut-down after Lavabit. The Lavabit story pisses me off, a guy has to give up multi-million company he's spent a decade of hard work on because his government does evil shit and nobody does a thing.

There are some very high-profile people on Silent Circle—and I mean very targeted people—as well as heads of state, human rights groups, reporters, special operations units from many countries. We wanted to be proactive because we knew USG would come after us due to the sheer amount of people who use us—let alone the “highly targeted high-profile people.” They are completely secure and clean on Silent Phone, Silent Text, and Silent Eyes, but e-mail is broken because govt can force us to turn over what we have. So to protect everyone and to drive them to use the other three peer to peer products–we made the decision to do this before men on [SIC] suits show up. Now—they are completely shut down—nothing they can get from us or try and force from us–we literally have nothing anywhere.

Update 12:40 pm: In a conversation with the New York Times, Janke said that his company has even gone so far as to destroy its server. "Gone. Can’t get it back. Nobody can,” he said. “We thought it was better to take flak from customers than be forced to turn it over."

And what's left of Lavabit:
http://lavabit.com/

I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit. After significant soul searching, I have decided to suspend operations. I wish that I could legally share with you the events that led to my decision. I cannot. I feel you deserve to know what’s going on--the first amendment is supposed to guarantee me the freedom to speak out in situations like this. Unfortunately, Congress has passed laws that say otherwise. As things currently stand, I cannot share my experiences over the last six weeks, even though I have twice made the appropriate requests.

What’s going to happen now? We’ve already started preparing the paperwork needed to continue to fight for the Constitution in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. A favorable decision would allow me resurrect Lavabit as an American company.

This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States.

Sincerely,
Ladar Levison
Owner and Operator, Lavabit LLC

This gets some media attention here, made the news a couple days ago but not in American media, apparently. Which is funny as it should mostly concern Americans. That said, here Snowden is considered a hero and these follow-up actions are portrayed as evil shit, while in the US media when someone decides to write something about the situation, they're pretty emotion-less and seem like they couldn't care less about Snowden.

 

[Pittsey]

I don't think many people worldwide give a shit about Snowden. Same with Bradley Manning and the narcissist that is Julian Assange. The UK government have a permanent Police presence outside the Ecuadorian embassy. How is that a good use of taxpayers money. Especially when it's for a crime such as sexual assault. What is with innocent until proven guilty? Yet, still no-one does anything about it, nor is anyone really particularly vocal about it.

I think we are all too comfortable. People won't revolt or stand against the establishment until they are hungry. Right now debt is freely available and we can all buy all our gadgets and mortgage ourselves up to our eyeballs. Who would risk upsetting the status quo and losing their house they have worked so hard for. Who has the time to protest? People are at work all the time servicing the debt. Both parents in most families are working and spending less time with their kids. Working days are far longer. We really are stuck in the machine.

Personally, I feel like we owe a lot to Snowden and Manning, and even to Assange. There are very few people left who put their own lives on the line for the better of the human race. People are so self absorbed and selfish now.

Personally, I conform. It's hard to go against the rest of society. But I hate the establishment and all in it. I am educating my children to the evils in this world. But the only way to get by is to be one of the 1%, rather than a hero like Bradley Manning. What has he achieved? A life in solitary confinement and very little appreciation from the people. He will go down in history and one day he will be appreciated. But does that give merit to his actions? I don't think he has achieved anything, except maybe getting the internet locked down more quickly.

Also... I defended Obama many times. But I have had enough of him. I thought he was decent deep down but in a difficult position. He seems to have been fully turned now. He doesn't give a fuck about his people, or anyone else. He's done his 2 terms, so I guess he's looking to secure his future position amongst the haves, much like Bill Clinton...!

To answer your question. I care....!

 

[Pittsey]

Also.... Russia have their own agenda for taking him in. They are probably more corrupt than ever and their rule is more totalitarian than the US or UK governments.

It's funny. I watch Russian News (Russia Today). And I use it to get the news that the US stations and the UK stations won't report. Items they try to bury. But I also see that they bury their own news that they don't want the Russian people to see. The same news is played freely in the US and the UK. To get balance, you have to watch them all.

Most news is dumbed down these days though. I have seen a dramatic decline in the BBCs reporting over the last few years. The best news channel at the moment is Al Jazeera. But the name alone seems to be synonymous with terrorism to people in the West. A colleague of mine asked why I was watching a terrorist propaganda channel. He doesn't see the irony when watching BBC or Fox news...!

I now await a visit from Prism.

 

[masta247]

Funny, I also watch Al Jazeera. They are actually often pro-American, but not to the point of hiding the truth. I find it unbelievable when some fucked up shit happens in Russia and it's not on the media there. Same with the US, as a matter of fact I think the US has some of the strongest propaganda in the media right now, that skips the most important issues that people should know about, but people in power would rather keep it quiet.
Years ago I used to think that people who said that media were "controlled" by the governments were conspiracy theorists. If you follow important events and then watch TV stations from regions where it happens it's really unbelievable what you see. After checking that myself I can't believe how can anyone still think that TV news are not full of bullshit. They are not a trusted source of anything related to the governments, national economy and wellbeing.
Now I only trust reports on natural disasters, really. Oh, and things that nobody should know or care about that they seem to love feeding people with, such as Kate's baby..!

Seems like a lot of shit is happening below the radar and it's everyone's interest to do everything so people don't start caring. With all due respect to homosexuals, their rights are in the spotlight everywhere now. There's always something that is a secondary issue that gets televised to make sure the fucked up issues don't get any attention.

 

[Pittsey]

With all due respect to homosexuals, their rights are in the spotlight everywhere now. There's always something that is a secondary issue that gets televised to make sure the fucked up issues don't get any attention.

Well.... That's because Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East are still living 50 years in the past when it comes to equal rights. But... In Western Europe and North America, it's a safe subject to report on. It doesn't create any ripples.

The BBC are the worst for showing safe programming and burying news that will get people thinking. Take the economic crisis. Every day this week we are told confidence is back, the market is recovering and we are on the way to securing the economy. But the reason we are in that position is because of the pro economy news reports If the news talked about the huge size of the current debt and showed the continual rioting in countries such as Greece and Spain, where they are unhappy with the austerity measures. Then stocks would slip again and spending would stop.

Like you, I used to think conspiracy theorists were mad. And I'm sure some on here think the same about this thread. People also take criticism of their countries personally.

 

[dilla]

Don't any of you coons shit on Wales.....

So where do we go for unbiased news? I do CNN for sensationalized headlines. Then I check BBC or Al Jazeera. It seems like back in 2007, the latter two were seen as better alternatives to US media, but looks like the last two have turned, too.

Now it's like....the comments section on Reddit....

 

[Pittsey]

Don't any of you coons shit on Wales.....

So where do we go for unbiased news? I do CNN for sensationalized headlines. Then I check BBC or Al Jazeera. It seems like back in 2007, the latter two were seen as better alternatives to US media, but looks like the last two have turned, too.

Now it's like....the comments section on Reddit....

I read the Guardian. Because I am a secret lefty. Online of course, this is not 1999.

I basically just read as many different new mediums as I can. To try and get a balanced picture.

 

[masta247]

Yeah I read all kinds of stuff on the internet, there's no one single news provider that I use. At some point you begin realizing that the big media corporations usually all report on the same things, things that are safe to report on. For interesting stuff you should know to know what's up you have to do some searching on slightly smaller, independent news websites. I use... Opera's discovery mode, lol.

Well.... That's because Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East are still living 50 years in the past when it comes to equal rights. But... In Western Europe and North America, it's a safe subject to report on. It doesn't create any ripples.

I'm not so sure about it now. I guess these are mostly cultural differences. After communism died things turned upside down in the world. The western world started caring for each weaker body and soul, Russia stopped pretending to do so.
I see how western world sees that as being backwards, but Russians believe in survival of the fittest, which in the end is better for the society as a whole, even if worse for specific individuals.
Human right protesters in Russia are mostly people familiar with western thinking. The rest of Russians are happy with the way things are. I wouldn't be surprised gay rights is not something that's going to come to russia even more than 50 years from now. It's really just a different way of thinking on these matters there.
Here in Poland people like to believe they're so western and modern, so everyone's pro gay-rights now, I don't think we're culturally far ahead of Russia if it comes to equal rights though. A lot of people pretend because it's cool.

It's an amazing topic to use for hiding all important issues though, so politicians are likely to argue about this for years.
They raised our VAT to fucking 23% when people were arguing about the government plane crash and nobody fucking cared..! They protested that a freaking Catholic cross was supposed to be moved to a different place, it was on TV everywhere, but not the tax raises. That's the prime example of doing evil shit behind peoples' backs, making them focus on irrelevant shit instead.

 

[dilla]

We should have a civilian news force. I guess we kind of do with social media. Twitter and all that shit has been used to report when shit goes down.

 

[Pittsey]

We should have a civilian news force. I guess we kind of do with social media. Twitter and all that shit has been used to report when shit goes down.

We should have a civilians political party...!

 

[Da_Funk]

Speaking for myself: I don't care what's happening to other people as long as I continue to be on the winning side.

If that makes me a piece of shit/bad human/whatever.... I don't care.

And really Snowden, a hero? He confirmed what all of us knew. Omg the US government is spying on everyone? Welcome to this thing called the real world.