So it's been out for a while now...what do we think of it? GT-R!

[Duke]

So what about this pumpkin, huh? Of course everyone got all stoked when we heard Nissan was making a new Skyline, well, a successor for the R-34 then, since they dropped the Skyline name.

When the first details leaked out, I have to admit I was one of the skeptics. I thought it was too heavy. I didn't like the fact that it didn't offer a manual 'box. I was slightly peeved at the fact they used a brand new engine instead of the old trusty RB26 unit.

But Nissan was not about to be fooled by fanboys such as me. They were not going to design an R-35 Skyline GT-R. They were building a Nissan GT-R. A brand new car.


So now it's out there. We've seen it. We've heard it. We've definitely seen the video of the damn thing hurtling over the Nordschleife at a ridiculous pace.
And I must say, doesn't the thing blow your mind? Sure, the statistics don't read miracles. Sure, the double-clutch system, technically, sounds nice on paper, but it's heavy and for 480-ish HP it's not really Godzilla, especially with the promise from Nissan that this one's not that tuneable compared to the old 2.6 powerplant.

But when you do watch the thing blitz over the 'Ring (let alone driving it) it all makes sense. The pace the car can maintain through corners, the insanse speed of the gearbox, the way it puts it's power down without the drama of more exotic supercars, it truly is performance orientated engineering in one, fine package.


In my humble opinion, Nissan has done it. They've raised the bar. They've outdone themselves.

 

[Duke]

GTR's 7:38 Nordschleife lap. Onboard cam. Some parts are darkish, but the speed (maybe "pace" would be a better word) of the car is obvious.

 

[Bachaveli]

$60,000

Are you saying this is the best racing car out right now? or what is it good for?

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

But keep in mind that it ran a 7:29 on the 'Ring within the past month or so. And it's more like $70k (prior to ridiculous markups). It's good for people who want to enjoy supercar capabilities in their daily driver anytime, anyplace... and for a much cheaper price than any other supercar, usable for a broader range of situations. Honestly, name another car that does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, slaloms well over 70 mph, pulls over 1.0g, has all-weather AWD capabilities (assuming you use the proper tires in the proper conditions), goes past 190 mph, seats four (with much more rear seat room than a 911) for the price.

I'm curious about how much more bad ass the GT-R V-Spec will be when it gets released. Road & Track is anticipating a 2.9-second 0-60 mph sprint and an even more amazing 'Ring time (as test mules have been unofficially timed at 7:25, though this was more than a month ago, and it's still under development).

 

[Duke]

The cool thing is Nissan made a performance car that rivals all the big boys, but without the crocodile testicle upholstery i.e. the expensive exotic image. So you get a car that goes like lightning, yet costs half of it's competitors.

Imo, this is, bang for buck, the best performance car out there right now.

And yes, the V-Spec is going to be even worse. They're shaving off like 150kg's, upping the power towards the 550's...

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

The cool thing is Nissan made a performance car that rivals all the big boys, but without the crocodile testicle upholstery i.e. the expensive exotic image. So you get a car that goes like lightning, yet costs half of it's competitors.

Imo, this is, bang for buck, the best performance car out there right now.

And yes, the V-Spec is going to be even worse. They're shaving off like 150kg's, upping the power towards the 550's...

Yup. But I think what is great about them dodging the "expensive exotic image" as you put it is that the image-conscious supercar buyers will probably pass on it, while the legit enthusiasts of various financial brackets who crave performance will want it. So this will give the less-well-heeled folks who probably could stretch things and afford a $70k GT-R and its maintenance fees a chance to buy it (though not until later when the markups are gone), since the richer folks who can throw down money for the markups probably won't be into this car... and if they are, then they're at least serious about performance, which is fine. But given the six-figure price of the GT-R V-Spec, I don't know if I can say the same about that car's buyers since I think more of them will end up in collectors' garages and will stay there far too long.

 

[Duke]

Do you think so? I'm not too sure. I think the "image conscious" (pompous pricks? ) buyers will pass up on the car altogether. It's still basically an affordable rocket, they won't care that much that this version has an extra digit to it's cost than the normal car.

If you're the type to drop 300.000 on a car on a whim, you're not going be attracted to the V-Spec just 'cause its price breaks a limit. And I think most V-Specs are pre-ordered by enthusiasts already (not "officialy", but I mean I think they're the ones that are the first ones to the goal, so to speak.)

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Do you think so? I'm not too sure. I think the "image conscious" (pompous pricks? ) buyers will pass up on the car altogether. It's still basically an affordable rocket, they won't care that much that this version has an extra digit to it's cost than the normal car.

If you're the type to drop 300.000 on a car on a whim, you're not going be attracted to the V-Spec just 'cause its price breaks a limit. And I think most V-Specs are pre-ordered by enthusiasts already (not "officialy", but I mean I think they're the ones that are the first ones to the goal, so to speak.)

The GT-R V-Spec, having a six-figure price tag and a much more limited run, will definitely catch the attention of a few car collectors. Plus its nutty performance makes it more attractive, whereas the GT-R's numbers ('Ring times excluded) are still matched by a decent portion of supercars. Even a stock '08 Viper will give the GT-R a run for its money, as it accelerates hard and puts down similar handling numbers. But the V-Spec is literally going to massacre so many of those cars that would typically be competitive with the standard GT-R. Based on speculation, the V-Spec might even break into the 10s for the quarter-mile, which isn't done by any other current production car other than the Veyron (off the top of my head), though I know that the Ferrari 599GTB and Porsche Carrera GT come reasonably close.

 

[Duke]

New 'Vettes put down good 1/4 times I've heard.

But anyway, I think the posh collectors will still think it's "just a Nissan" and leave it alone. I'll wager most buyers of the V-spec appreciate what it stands for and will use it like that.

Kudos for Nissan for not branding it as an Infiniti btw.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

New 'Vettes put down good 1/4 times I've heard.

Assuming you're talking about the Z06s still, they're still in the 11s. There were reports of a well-seasoned drag racer pulling off a 10.98 in his reportedly bone-stock Z06, but I have serious doubts about that. It seems too unbelievable considering the fact that most magazines pull off mid-11s, some even high-11s. I have a hard time comprehending an "experienced" owner being able to pull off a quarter-mile time over a half-second faster than a bunch of test drivers for various publications. It's a little fishy to say the least. But the new ZR1s should be pretty amazing down the quarter-mile too, probably doing high 10s.

But anyway, I think the posh collectors will still think it's "just a Nissan" and leave it alone. I'll wager most buyers of the V-spec appreciate what it stands for and will use it like that.

We'll see, but I still stand firmly by my opinion.

Kudos for Nissan for not branding it as an Infiniti btw.

Yeah, though there were rumors a couple months ago about them having a four-door GT-R-based super sedan badged as an Infiniti. Whatever though.

 

[C.R.Y.]

i think the gtr is one of the baddest cars to have ever come out. alot of people were doubting it because it was probably going to be heavy and "only" have 480hp. now that they see the thing running mid 11s, and lapping the ring in times more comparable to $500,000 exotics they bite their tongues. this car is amazing and if anyone is looking for a testicle for one (and a carrera gt), id be willing to give it.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

^ Yup. It's absolutely nuts how amazing the car is, then consider how amazing it is for $70k. It effectively took down the Z06 as the ultimate bang-for-the-buck everyday supercar. Not to say that the Z06 isn't bad ass (because it is), but the GT-R is more impressive overall considering the fact that it's 600-700 pounds heavier.

The funny thing is, the only real criticism of the car is that it's "too easy" to drive fast, which some hardcore people don't like because they feel that it takes some of the fun out, which I understand but personally wouldn't consider it as a weakness. Fight with the steering wheel at every corner vs. pointing the car in one direction and it doing exactly what you tell it to with no fuss while being much faster... pretty simple decision if you ask me.

 

[Duke]

What strikes me with this car is the refinement. Statistically it's nothing special. Four-wheel drive, 480 hp, 1700+ kg's. That's not impressive.

But it works so well. None of those 480 hp are wasted because the car cannot put them down on the tarmac. That new gearbox shifts with inhuman speed.

 

[C.R.Y.]

thats because of the R&D they put into this car. the nissans weight actually in a way helps the car. i remember reading somewhere that the car uses its weights to get the tires to grip completely (dont remember the details). hence why the way the tires are mounted on the rims is special (along with being runflats). they also mentioned how the car has less rolling resistance then usual. even the way they mounted the trans (in the back) is designed to lower power loss to the wheels. yet at the same time it helps the car keep a good weight distribution. nissan claims that the car really doesnt make anymore then 480bhp. but they figured a way to minimize drivetrain loss so its below the expect 15%, which is already pretty low for an awd car

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Just a few corrections/clarifications I'd like to make...

hence why the way the tires are mounted on the rims is special (along with being runflats).

The fact that the tires are runflats don't really have much to do with the actual performance, since they were used more for their convenience since they wouldn't have to equip the car with a spare, which eliminates the inconvenience of a reasonably well-heeled GT-R owner (since you've got to have some money to be able to afford one) having to change it out, especially when the front and rear wheels/tires are of different sizes. If anything, runflats are actually less beneficial for performance than the exact same tire if it weren't a runflat.

even the way they mounted the trans (in the back) is designed to lower power loss to the wheels. yet at the same time it helps the car keep a good weight distribution.

The mounting does help enhance weight distribution (though it's still a tad more front-biased), but it doesn't help lower drivetrain losses; if anything, it might actually increase it a bit since the input shaft from the motor to the transmission has to go all the way back, then ANOTHER driveshaft goes from the transmission and center LSD back to the front wheels. There is a bit more lost in the process, particularly when in AWD mode. However, they do use better materials than normal for these things to help compensate and then some.

nissan claims that the car really doesnt make anymore then 480bhp. but they figured a way to minimize drivetrain loss so its below the expect 15%, which is already pretty low for an awd car

I don't think Nissan made an AWD drivetrain that has less than a 15% loss to the wheels; it's just that the car is clearly underrated. The vast majority of AWD cars typically lose anywhere from 20-25% of the engine power by the time it goes through the wheels, and it's not likely that Nissan magically figured out a way to decrease those losses by 5-10%, which is a little far-fetched.

 

[Duke]

Just a few corrections/clarifications I'd like to make...


The fact that the tires are runflats don't really have much to do with the actual performance, since they were used more for their convenience since they wouldn't have to equip the car with a spare, which eliminates the inconvenience of a reasonably well-heeled GT-R owner (since you've got to have some money to be able to afford one) having to change it out, especially when the front and rear wheels/tires are of different sizes. If anything, runflats are actually less beneficial for performance than the exact same tire if it weren't a runflat.

Yup, true.

The mounting does help enhance weight distribution (though it's still a tad more front-biased), but it doesn't help lower drivetrain losses; if anything, it might actually increase it a bit since the input shaft from the motor to the transmission has to go all the way back, then ANOTHER driveshaft goes from the transmission and center LSD back to the front wheels. There is a bit more lost in the process, particularly when in AWD mode. However, they do use better materials than normal for these things to help compensate and then some.

Also true. AWD eats a lot of power due to the extended drivetrain.

I don't think Nissan made an AWD drivetrain that has less than a 15% loss to the wheels; it's just that the car is clearly underrated. The vast majority of AWD cars typically lose anywhere from 20-25% of the engine power by the time it goes through the wheels, and it's not likely that Nissan magically figured out a way to decrease those losses by 5-10%, which is a little far-fetched.

Again, true I fear. They may have lessened the power loss a bit, but not by that much,

Although I wouldn't be too quick to say Nissan (actively) overestimated the car. Fact is that it puts all of it's horses to work at pretty much any time. Then it doesn't matter if you have 800 theoretical horsepower, if you can only use 400 where the GT-R can slap on it's full monty of 480, the GT-R is quicker.

 

[C.R.Y.]

Just a few corrections/clarifications I'd like to make...


The fact that the tires are runflats don't really have much to do with the actual performance, since they were used more for their convenience since they wouldn't have to equip the car with a spare, which eliminates the inconvenience of a reasonably well-heeled GT-R owner (since you've got to have some money to be able to afford one) having to change it out, especially when the front and rear wheels/tires are of different sizes. If anything, runflats are actually less beneficial for performance than the exact same tire if it weren't a runflat.

i know. run flats are just for convenience. but i read an article mention that either way the tires need to be specially mounted because of the way the beads sit. the point i was trying to make about the drivetrain loss is that they used special bearings throughout the car is it can move more effortlessly. even the way the trans is mounted (the angle) is designed to help drivetrain loss. heres the link

CBA-R35: R35 Drivetrain loss.

heres the link about the bead and mounting

2009 Nissan GT-R: Motor Trend Test R35 GT-R 3.2 seconds to 60mph.

 

[Duke]

i know. run flats are just for convenience. but i read an article mention that either way the tires need to be specially mounted because of the way the beads sit. the point i was trying to make about the drivetrain loss is that they used special bearings throughout the car is it can move more effortlessly. even the way the trans is mounted (the angle) is designed to help drivetrain loss. heres the link

CBA-R35: R35 Drivetrain loss.

heres the link about the bead and mounting

2009 Nissan GT-R: Motor Trend Test R35 GT-R 3.2 seconds to 60mph.

If it works so well why doesnt anyone else do it? Or is the technology *that* new?

 

[dillaxx]

If it works so well why doesnt anyone else do it? Or is the technology *that* new?

because i think the japs are bigger fanatics about cars than americans... or atleast in some sense... americans are a little more about sheer power whereas japanese and even some europeans are about efficiency

 

[C.R.Y.]

If it works so well why doesnt anyone else do it? Or is the technology *that* new?

maybe because this car is nissans halo car and probably isnt meant for profit. but more to show what a japanese manufacturer is capable of. so they put alot of research and development. kind of like the veyron is for bugatti.