Ever get the feeling that maybe it was better for Pac that he died?

[omgwtflol]

Now, first of all, I'm not wishing death on him or anything like that. I wish he was alive as much as the next guy. But a thread on this forum (did pac have any plans or something) got me thinking again.

Dante brought up a good point that I always thought about - that had Pac lived he'd have been going back to jail. Obviously he didn't want to and that would've been hell for him, and who knows what would've happened to him or how he could've changed for the worse. Also, his finger got blasted off and his lung was removed. I'm sure the lung thing would've seriously hindered his rapping and he would lose a lot of physical appeal with a missing finger.

Another thing I think about is people trying to kill him - he obviously had very many enemies (such as how EDI said on the Thug Angel DVD - "People settin him up and tryin to kill him..."), and he probably would've lived his life in extreme paranoia, especially after starting shit with Crips.

Also, Pac was a very permiscuous guy. I could easily see his marriage with Kidada falling apart and Pac pulling an Eazy and fathering tons of illegitimate children and catching STDs (to be honest I am extremely surprised this did not happen before he got killed). That shit could really fuck him up.

Basically, maybe it's for the best that he went out how he did - his 'legend' was barely scratched (jail once for a BS rape case, no AIDS, no illegitimate children - he's much more of a 'martyr' this way). The only way that I see that death wouldn't have been favorable to him (or rather, his legend and his reputation) is if he would not have attacked Orlando.

 

[Diaz]

Also, people looked at his music in a different way when he died, so his death made his greatest album ever - 7 Day Theory - that much better.

 

[Think_ThuGLiFE]

Well see your just painting a scenario out. My scenario is slightly different. I was thinking maybe he was never shot because we all know it practically happened on accident that the killer pulled right up to 2pacs car. He was even supposed to have a bullet proof limo that night, but it had a bad alternator (Dante info).

2pac said he was going to settle down and Kidada said he started to chill at home more. Even Dante said something of the lines of he was going back to the 2pac name instead of Makaveli when the beef , ect was all over. And about him having STDS , don’t take the book “got yo back” too literally. We are not too sure how much is fact or fiction.

His legend also seemed like it was growing . People seem to forget how popular he was while alive. IF he didn’t do the things he did while he was living, no 1 would give 2 shits about him in his death. Look at Big pun and Proof. Respected but basically forgotten. Look at 2pac, u have white suburban kids calling him “Black Jesus”.

 

[EDouble]

Also, Pac was a very permiscuous guy. I could easily see his marriage with Kidada falling apart and Pac pulling an Eazy and fathering tons of illegitimate children and catching STDs

his 'legend' was barely scratched (jail once for a BS rape case, no AIDS, no illegitimate children - he's much more of a 'martyr' this way). The only way that I see that death wouldn't have been favorable to him (or rather, his legend and his reputation) is if he would not have attacked Orlando.

if anything pac was in the direction of settlin down some what and gettin focused on more important shit. Why compare him to eazy 'pull an eazy e' how about pull alot of young brothers that choose to pull the same & father illegitimately. and pull alot of young people that end catchin AIDs. but besides this think about pac & that it dont' work for some reason.

everything happened for a reason how it did no positive or negatives there and can't turn the 'what ifs' into positive or negative. "Yes, 'legacy' is quite good. He didn't even have time to maybe catch many STD's and father tons of illegitimate children. This creates an illusion among fans." ...Pac's legend is exactly what it is his life was cut short.

 

[omgwtflol]

if anything pac was in the direction of settlin down some what and gettin focused on more important shit. Why compare him to eazy 'pull an eazy e' how about pull alot of young brothers that choose to pull the same & father illegitimately. and pull alot of young people that end catchin AIDs. but besides this think about pac & that it dont' work for some reason.

everything happened for a reason how it did no positive or negatives there and can't turn the 'what ifs' into positive or negative. "Yes, 'legacy' is quite good. He didn't even have time to maybe catch many STD's and father tons of illegitimate children. This creates an illusion among fans." ...Pac's legend is exactly what it is his life was cut short.

I used the Eazy comparison becuase he's well known..if I would have said "he pulled a young black male", well I think that'd a very racist comment.

And yeah he was settling down theoretically, but that cannot erase the mistakes he previously made recently.

 

[stefanwzyga]

and he would lose a lot of physical appeal with a missing finger.
.

I dont think many girls would kick him outta bed cuz he only had 9 fingers!!

All the stuff your saying could apply to all of us in the future. I mean you think he would have done an eazy and fathered loads of kids, why? he was 25 when he died and never had any kids.

 

[omgwtflol]

I dont think many girls would kick him outta bed cuz he only had 9 fingers!!

All the stuff your saying could apply to all of us in the future. I mean you think he would have done an eazy and fathered loads of kids, why? he was 25 when he died and never had any kids.

That's just plain luck that he didn't. Come on, when you read that he fucked every woman in the How Do U Want It video, how're you gonna tell me that MOST LIKELY his behavior towards sex and women won't lead to sexual consequence - pregnancy and disease.

I know anythng in the 'what if' pretense could apply to anyone..but when we say that stuff with Pac, it's because he was clearly heading down that path, imo. I can't say that about you - you're not having music videos and fucking the cast, beating up Crips and out on bail.

 

[Dante]

my thoughts...

it is true that the armored death row limo was to have been present in vegas, and likewise that pac was going to have to face the music with the rape case (and a multitude of others that remained pending). so let's imagine that pac wasn't shot that night in vegas. where would he be?

professionally makaveli was a character persona developed for pac's war with bad boy and his other rivals. obviously while he was recording makaveli tracks in the summer of 1996 he was also recording 2pac tracks, such as words to my firstborn for random example, so the point is illustrated that he was still 2pac and hadn't transformed fully into makaveli. one of pac's albums that he had recorded for release after makaveli sometime was entirely clean, and meant for the kids/parents/radio. this album is further support for makaveli being a phase, and not representing a constant facet he had developed.

it's likely that pac would have pursued acting more than recording after a time, since in the end that's where his roots are and how he got into entertainment in the first place, but we have to remember that he was on bought time. the fact that he was on borrowed and very finite time means that he'd probably have continued recoding like a madman until his time was up. this leads to...

legally pac was on bail, he wasn't free. he still had pending trials against him for a variety of charges in several states, and of course the most significant being the sexual abuse/sodomy case in new york. in all reality he was going away for a very long time. one might speculate that with his celebrity, being who he was might create an oj simpson type circus of a trial ending with his freedom, but the reality is that the climate at that time was very anti-rap music in white and wealthy america. shit, i even wrote a sarcastic letter to newsweek in 1995 praising them for panning literally every hip hop related project without fail or discrimination. point is that the world was against him, except for the minority of us who'd had called ourselves fans. a judge's duty is not only to enforce the law of the land, it's also to perform social justice based on the prevailing moral climate of the society as well as the punitive puritan code on which this country was established.

so then, what could we expect? well being that he had a multitude of cases and sentencings pending from prior events, these would most likely be relevant to establish his character in court. the prosecutor already took that route in the pretrial sessions (see the courthouse interview used in the uteot video), and she'd have been successful in the real trial as well. face it, we like the guy but pac was but he had a long rap sheet, came from a family of rebels and lawbreakers, his own mother was in prison for her involvement in a plot that took several people's lives (later acquitted), rapped of violence/misogyny/hate/provocation/drug abuse (which was interpreted as endorsement), and trouble seemed to follow him everywhere he went. when the jury would look at the big picture that the prosecutor would have painted of pac't life, he'd have been locked up for 10 years.

personally my thought is that pac would have fled the country as his trial wound to a close. in songs and interviews he constantly says that "they" will never lock me up again. you can interpret the outro of picture me rollin as pac speaking on his death (which most do) or as i do, which is speaking on his flight. close your eves and picture him rolling as he was here when he was happy, since he's gone and on the run now - never to lead his life the same again. i doubt he'd have gone out like david koresh, but pac's interviews of his time in prison painted it to be hell for him and he'd rather face death than that barren existence. i can't blame him.

relationship wise, sure pac and dada were very tight, but as stated before, i think pac just didn't lead the life of a family man. there was no time, and he may have thought that it would be unfair to share the burden of his flight. had he gotten caught, for example, his partner in flight would also face harboring charges. i would wager that pac's work would continue being put out much as it is now (albeit not as shittily) but he would not have much promotion or endorsement. for those who know of his story, pac would be the 2000 version of roman polansky, but possibly hunted like salman rushdie.

politically irrelevant. pac's criminal past prohibited him from becoming an elected official, but moreover the majority vote would never support someone like him. the people online who say he'd have run for an elected position are idiots. pac may have attended rallies (like the one for prop 217 [i think it was] in which he's dressed in a white suit) but that would be it. it would be destructive for a candidate to even have him on the same stage in support.

in the end my opinion is that pac would still be a legend in his own time, but there's no way he'd have the universal favor that his estate celebrates now. he'd have been sent to prison, there is no question about that, and that being the case it's also more than likely that he'd have vanished. kind of depressing when you think about it all, and even moreso when you ponder that all of this was on his mind every second of the day. i can understand why he didn't sleep and why he chain smoked, but it's mind boggling how he was able to channel a lot of this nervous energy into the mass production of amazing music.

awesome thread. as you can see i have a lot of opinions on the subject.

 

[ItsmeyaC]

all that weed he smoked killed his sperm

 

[omgwtflol]

Great reply Dante, thanks. I was hoping you'd drop some shit.

You say maybe Pac would've fled the country...I'm not so sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the interview at the shooting range BEFORE the sexual assault case? Personally I think he was just being cocky and hotheaded and he wouldn't really do something as rash as that, as evident by him actually going to jail.

Also, in Resurrection (I think, atleast), Tupac said that he felt God wanted him to go to jail so he did. Maybe he would feel similarily if it happened again?

 

[stefanwzyga]

That's just plain luck that he didn't. Come on, when you read that he fucked every woman in the How Do U Want It video, how're you gonna tell me that MOST LIKELY his behavior towards sex and women won't lead to sexual consequence - pregnancy and disease.

Well he was famous in 91, so im pretty sure he was doing plenty fuckin between 91 and 96 yet never fathered any kids! so i dont see why you think he was gonna end up with a shakur football team.

Infact maybe he was shooting blanks.*Waits for some fool to start a thread*

 

[Tupac-Soulja]

Nice post dante, thanks a lot man

 

[ItsmeyaC]

everytime i hear ambitions as a ridah and he say, fuck doing jail time, better day sacrifce, wont get a chance to do me like they did my nigga tyson, i cant help but think he was either gonna fuck off somewhere or he's gonna go out in a blaze of glory, the whole song is crazy

 

[omgwtflol]

Well he was famous in 91, so im pretty sure he was doing plenty fuckin between 91 and 96 yet never fathered any kids! so i dont see why you think he was gonna end up with a shakur football team.

Infact maybe he was shooting blanks.*Waits for some fool to start a thread*

Well that's exactly why I say it had to happen soon - 5 years of celebrity (well I wouldn't say that in 91 and 92 he was very sexually permiscuous, he was younger and less appealing because he hadn't cultivated his thug image fully) and fucking just statistically has to end up with something going wrong sooner or later. Maybe he would've got cocky and forgone protection on the basis that he's never had any problems in his years of promiscuity. Then BAM. Problems for Pac.

 

[Shot 21]

Excellent post Dante. True shit you spoke there. Id rep you if I could.

 

[ItsmeyaC]

or maybe he was really really carefull regarding ze fuck fuck

 

[Dante]

Great reply Dante, thanks. I was hoping you'd drop some shit.

You say maybe Pac would've fled the country...I'm not so sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the interview at the shooting range BEFORE the sexual assault case? Personally I think he was just being cocky and hotheaded and he wouldn't really do something as rash as that, as evident by him actually going to jail.

Also, in Resurrection (I think, atleast), Tupac said that he felt God wanted him to go to jail so he did. Maybe he would feel similarily if it happened again?

like ItsmeyaC's post, there are dozens of songs making reference to pac not going back to jail. obviously it wasn't his decision, but it indeed was his decision whether or not to comply with those who he viewed as his captors.

i don't see pac pulling a koresh, but when i wrote the polansky line i stopped and reread it and though, god damn, that's what it would have been... hopefully he would have gone to the uk and not canada.

or maybe he was really really carefull regarding ze fuck fuck

i'm not a dickrider by any means, but it's pretty clear that pac was fucking a whole different class of females than eazy was. if you had ever seen eazy's women (look at tamika for example) they all look like dirty ass hoodrats while pac was busy with hollywood bitches. apples and oranges. one will have you burning, the other will have you bragging.

 

[Shot 21]

like ItsmeyaC's post, there are dozens of songs making reference to pac not going back to jail. obviously it wasn't his decision, but it indeed was his decision whether or not to comply with those who he viewed as his captors.

i don't see pac pulling a koresh, but when i wrote the polansky line i stopped and reread it and though, god damn, that's what it would have been... hopefully he would have gone to the uk and not canada.

Yeah but the fuck heads over here would probably shipped him back in handcuffs :angry: . Maybe it would have been best for him to live out in Mexico. Use his money to build a nice studio and keep his music pumping out in the streets.

 

[EDouble]

Maybe he would've got cocky and forgone protection on the basis that he's never had any problems in his years of promiscuity. Then BAM. Problems for Pac.

we can only hope ay cuz :thumb:.lmao...

But great posts dante in this. Shit, yall remember that Fatal was on the run state to state for like a year one time it must be that true Outlaw mentality.

"Think I'm goin back to jail, they must really be on that shit".

The way and the steps,that Pac took throughout everythin you just couldnt picture him at his peak, penned up for Years. And how he fought for everythin before, with everythin the courts the Shooting the jail the bail the beefs...can't picture him complyin with going back. It's almost like step by step, he had no control but he did have control at the same time. It's like it was evident it was either gonna just become an Outlaw for years go out in a blaze with the polices the different forces he always dropped in his lines..or some shit like with what happened in Vegas.

"A real motherfucka will pick the time to leave"

 

[Local Star]

I love this site. Brilliant post Dante, I sat down with a cup of tea to read that one. As EDouble has just mentioned about Fatal on the run state to state, it really hit home.. Outlawz. out'law n. one beyond protection of the law; exile, bandit etc. I now 100% believe that Pac would have fled the country. Also so many lyrics support this, something like " still searchin' for me, am in Jamaica drinkin.." and "hook up with (fidel) Kastro". Sorry I couldnt quote exactly. This thread has opened a whole new perspective for me, imagine his tunes being released whilst in exile! Certainly he would recive little promotion but the actual common knowledge of a genius rapper on the run releasing quality music would have made him a living legend. The 'borrowed time' as Dante put it seemed to be all to clear to Pac and he wouldnt sit around waiting for the inevitable. So I belive this quote is very appropriate...

Because I could not stop for Death --
He kindly stopped for me --
The Carriage held but just Ourselves --
And Immortality.