Did 2pac become makaveli (Machiavelli related)

[Think_ThuGLiFE]

Do you believe 2pac actually became Machiavelli after jail? A Machiavellian ?
(Do not use the Alive Theories websites most of their information on Machiavelli is either false or far fetched.) Was it a stage name or did he really change the outlook he had and became a person? To me it seems 2pac actually took most the rules and lessons in the book “the prince” and applied it to his life .From his work ethic, to really not trusting anybody, to the way he handled the whole East Coast West Coast war. Most of his interviews had a lot of Machiavelli’s influences in them.



I became intrigued by this famous Political Philosopher (he did not label himself as one) mostly because of 2pac and wondered what the significance and importance this guy had , and why 2pac admired him so much to change his name. After doing some research and reading some of his works especially “il prince” I see why 2pac was fond of the whole war minded philosophy. From his whole notion of “The ends justify the means”, “it is better to be feared then loved” and “to establish and maintain ones success or reign.”

The Catholic church even put the prince in its Index as a books against the faith .

So I was wondering what do the 2pac fans who heard most of 2pacs interviews and music think. Did he become a type of Machiavellianism person, or not..

Discuss....


And b4 anyone asks no this is not for school lol I was just interesting in what people think. And always wondering peoples thoughts on it.

 

[KAMIKAZI]

I don't really know much about Machiavelli but I'm sure Pac was influenced by him. That's why 2Pac read so many books, he used the knowledge to his advantage. Plus his rap name was "Makaveli", that's a good clue, lol.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I believe he was heavily influenced by him.

 

[Outla Spirit]

yea pac was influenced by him... not just a new stage name

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I think that when Pac was in jail, he knew that when he came out, he had to be bigger and badder than ever to regain everyone's respect (after being accused of rape, found guilty of sexual abuse, allegedly assaulted in prison, etc.) and to put fear in those who stood in his way. Just remember how Pac said the following in the jail interview from both Tupac Vs. and Tupac Resurrection:

My closest friends did me in... I just thought about how I could make them sorry that they ever did this to me... how can I come back fifty times stronger and better..."

And Pac's answers to these questions were found in Machiavellian strategy:

I didn't get that power from guns 'cause there's no guns in jails. I got that power from books and by thinking and by strategizing.

For you guys who have already read Machiavelli's The Prince, I would recommend What Would Machiavelli Do? by Stanley Bing. It's about how to apply Machiavellian thought (specifically for people in power) to their practices to succeed. In this section entitled "He would make you fear for your life," it talks about the Suge/Vanilla Ice incident (even though they spelled his name "Shug"). It's a good book that is a quick read that you can finish while taking a long shit.

 

[Outla Spirit]

what was the title of the book pac read in jail bout Machiavelli???

thx ppl n props... :thumb:

 

[Think_ThuGLiFE]

what was the title of the book pac read in jail bout Machiavelli???

thx ppl n props... :thumb:

The Prince

its in my 1st post....

 

[Outla Spirit]

The Prince

its in my 1st post....

ye... i didnt notice that... thanks anyway :thumb:

 

[Dante]

if you think about it, pac was one of the exceptionally few hip hop artists NOT to have originated his career as a character. while we always loved our ice cubes, krs-ones, and tribe called quests, they were characters, or musical personas rather, that weren't definitions of their true self. when ice cube wasn't being ice cube, he was being oshea jackson. pac on the other hand used his first name (albeit an ebonical spelling ) and was always 2pac. i interpret the invention of the makaveli persona to be a reflection of this...

pac got locked up and that meant a lot more than just catching a case. as he saw it, the section of society who he was acting as a voicebox for betrayed him to a degree, and subsequently all but abandoned him while he was incarcerated. his career as 2pac was mostly positive, and very much unrewarded... and look where it got him.

enter makaveli. lela and others have stated that pac was a reader, and he had read a lot of the greats throughout his life before trouble struck, but in my opinion it was the circumstances under which he read and digested the prince and the art of war that gave them venom for him to use. he was betrayed, shot, in solitary, and no one was coming to save him. pac was angry. even through a lot of the all eyez party type songs you can hear an edge of anger in his his words, or a line here and there that isn't very nice the spelling of makaveli reflects a street alias component of a new moniker that symbolizes pac's career era as a general of war. he spoke of returning back to 2pac when his makaveli mission had completed, and therefore i interpret the allusions and spelling of makaveli to be him taking ownership of the name (the spelling of it and references to the mack, the hustler who owns the street) and using it to represent his role in taking aim at the imposters in the rap game, as well as those who he had thought wronged him. pac's first use of a character persona was a pretty deep one, as opposed to putting together some random street terminology like a lot of other artists do. us even discussing it is a testament to that.

 

[DeeezNuuuts83]

enter makaveli. lela and others have stated that pac was a reader, and he had read a lot of the greats throughout his life before trouble struck, but in my opinion it was the circumstances under which he read and digested the prince and the art of war that gave them venom for him to use. he was betrayed, shot, in solitary, and no one was coming to save him. pac was angry. even through a lot of the all eyez party type songs you can hear an edge of anger in his his words, or a line here and there that isn't very nice the spelling of makaveli reflects a street alias component of a new moniker that symbolizes pac's career era as a general of war. he spoke of returning back to 2pac when his makaveli mission had completed, and therefore i interpret the allusions and spelling of makaveli to be him taking ownership of the name (the spelling of it and references to the mack, the hustler who owns the street) and using it to represent his role in taking aim at the imposters in the rap game, as well as those who he had thought wronged him. pac's first use of a character persona was a pretty deep one, as opposed to putting together some random street terminology like a lot of other artists do. us even discussing it is a testament to that.

This is the deepest post I have read in a while :thumb:

 

[DutchPac2]

First of all gotta agree with Dante. Pac didn't act after characters in books. He reacted to situations. How he felt became pretty clear in Only god can judge me. Like he said, he couldn't trust no-one.
Being Makaveli he was a general in war. But everything was real, he didn't act that war.

When reading "Il Principe", it made me see things. Not much though. Fot example don't think much of his lyrics are inspired by Machiavelli, better: litterly based on Machiavelli's words.
Theoretically it's possible 2 say songs like Bomb first and Against all odds are based on his books (only read "Il principe" a few times, for the subject political science, so hard to say things bout his other books). Machiavelli tells about ways to get rid of enemies. The most efficient is to take em all out in one time. Get them together in a room and kill em all. He did that on Against all odds (in fact with the whole album considering he dissed Jayz not in against all odds, only in bomb first).

Basicly the book "Il principe" is about ways to become a principe, capo, etc. Machiavelli explains what the best discisions are in different situations: when you as citizen become a leader what you should do the hold on to that power for example.
It's true what's said about work ethics. Macchiavelli said when there ain't no war, a prince should study it and practice. Allways work.
But i don't think Pac worked that much beacause of the book. In my oppinion he had different reasons.

 

[AmerikazMost]

Most people don't realize that Machiaveli was a dedicated Republican, meaning that he believed the government should be invested in the elctorate, not a single ruler. These sentiments can be found in The Discourses, a piece overshadowed by the fame of the Prince. The former, however, was written earlier, before the Medici took control of Florence. The significance is that the Medici viewed him as a threat to their rule because of his influence and his philosophies on government, and they even went on to torture him. In an attempt to win back the graces of the ruling family and get out from under their suspicion, Machiavelli wrote The Prince and dedictaed it to Lorenzo. On the surface, the book appears to be a handbook for autocrats to seize and maintain power. Most modern political philosophers, however, now believe that the book was meant to be a recipe for monarchial disaster disguised as positive reinforcement towards the actions of the Medici. If you examine the advice in the book, you will notice that Machiavelli seems to be luring "the prince" into circumstances that would supplement his downfall.

I think it's ironic that Pac, who seemingly adopted such a Prince mentality, also met his end, an end that seemed to be the direct cause of his actions. It's interesting - Tupac's life and subsequent death after prison seemingly proves the trapping theory behind The Prince.

 

[Think_ThuGLiFE]

pac got locked up and that meant a lot more than just catching a case. as he saw it, the section of society who he was acting as a voicebox for betrayed him to a degree, and subsequently all but abandoned him while he was incarcerated. his career as 2pac was mostly positive, and very much unrewarded... and look where it got him.
.

That’s what I also believed especially after reading the prince. Everything I was reading seem liked “ that’s Pac”. He went threw the worst of times in 1 shot, Alleged rap case , getting shot , and being sent to jail for a crime he did not commit. I know 100 people already stated this but you essentially summed it up.

If you examine the advice in the book, you will notice that Machiavelli seems to be luring "the prince" into circumstances that would supplement his downfall.

I think it's ironic that Pac, who seemingly adopted such a Prince mentality, also met his end, an end that seemed to be the direct cause of his actions. It's interesting - Tupac's life and subsequent death after prison seemingly proves the trapping theory behind The Prince.

I never knew people and theorist consider “ the prince “to have a hidden meaning as to someone’s downfall. It could very well make sense but the country of Italy was going there constant invasion and tribulations. So it seems he was trying to save his country more then seek revenge, but very interesting point you made. Many people say Machiavelli shows a Prince or Leader that is practically impossible to embody and no one can follow those kinds of guiding principles entirely.

 

[DutchPac2]

It could very well make sense but the country of Italy was going there constant invasion and tribulations. So it seems he was trying to save his country more then seek revenge, but very interesting point you made. Many people say Machiavelli shows a Prince or Leader that is practically impossible to embody and no one can follow those kinds of guiding principles entirely.

Macchiavelli allways wanted to create one italian nation. Especially one army. Only together they could stop invading French, Spanish and German troups. In that time italy consisted of a lot of "seperated states" (Naples, Rome, Genua, Firenze, Milano, Siena, Venice etc.) They fought against eachother and that's why those other countries had a chance to concur parts of italy.

A famous "quote" (not exactly, hard to translate literaly from Dutch...) from machiavelli is "To be able to reach your goals you can use anything, as long as it is in national interest.


For the Dutch people: "Het doel heiligt de middelen zolang het in het nationaal belang is". Maybe Dutchmakaveli or anyone else could translate this in a better way.

Macchiavelli used Cesare Borgia as example. Il Principe is basicly about him. Saying that he "shows a Prince or Leader that is practically impossible to embody and no one can follow those kinds of guiding principles entirely" is not true. Cesare Borgia never made a mistake, he had to cope with bad-luck. He couldn't stop the new pope from being choosen because he was ill at the time.

 

[Think_ThuGLiFE]

A famous "quote" (not exactly, hard to translate literaly from Dutch...) from machiavelli is "To be able to reach your goals you can use anything, as long as it is in national interest.


.

I think this is what your trying to say.....


The ends justify the means or wrong actions are necessary to achieve morally right outcomes.

 

[DutchPac2]

Yes, that's it, thank you!

 

[CESARE BORGIA]

Macchiavelli used Cesare Borgia as example. Il Principe is basicly about him. Saying that he "shows a Prince or Leader that is practically impossible to embody and no one can follow those kinds of guiding principles entirely" is not true. Cesare Borgia never made a mistake, he had to cope with bad-luck. He couldn't stop the new pope from being choosen because he was ill at the time.

I recomend reading "The life of Cesare Borgia", the guy was a bad motherfucker, the most feared man in italy.

 

[Playa77777]

Machaivelli was a simple man all his power was knowledge, he seperated the goverment, law and police(just think bush got all these powers). that this thread is about Machiavelli shows the succes in his works. by the way i think everyboddy plays the prince a lil, just the playas that play it consciously can accomplish their real goals, and i think that pac wanted to be remembered and when the minorities take over the US he want them to know his struggle. and like machiavellis spirit is in the polital game is pacs spirit in the rapgame!

 

[DutchPac2]

I recomend reading "The life of Cesare Borgia", the guy was a bad motherfucker, the most feared man in italy.

True, and that was something a prince needed to be like Machiavelli said. "Make sure you're feared, not hated"