Are We Alone?

[Illuminattile]

Are we the only technologically advanced civilisation in our Galaxy/the Universe?

Just read up a little on the Drake equation and the Fermi Paradox. I always assumed that there was life out there, since the universe is so vast, but I'm not sure. If they are out there, why haven't they contacted us? If we go with Occam's Razor and pick the 'easiest' solution, then we are alone, at least in the Milky Way.

 

[TecK NeeX]

If they are out there, why haven't they contacted us?

i know that whenever alien lifeforms are talked about they are always considered more intelligent and superior to the human race but what if they are not and cant contact us? what if they are waiting for us to contact them? i believe there are other creatures in the universe but are much inferior and not as intelligent as us

 

[Illuminattile]

i know that whenever alien lifeforms are talked about they are always considered more intelligent and superior to the human race but what if they are not and cant contact us? what if they are waiting for us to contact them? i believe there are other creatures in the universe but are much inferior and not as intelligent as us

We are trying to contact them. I agree with you that there are other lifeforms out there, but other technologically advanced lifeforms? I'm not sure.

 

[Amara]

Ok, I looked up the Drake Equation and found that by his calculations (N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L) there should be about 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way.
And the Fermi Paradox - considering the sheer size and planetary capability of supporting life as well as considering the 10 billion or so years the galaxy has been around, if there were any "super-advanced alien civilizations" in existence, they would have made themselves known by now.

But, I'm still not convinced by the latter argument. I mean "intelligent" life on Earth has only been in existence for a very short time (...and considering some of the conversations that I have had with various people on this board, I question that it even exists now....!), so we have only really just begun to understand the complexities of the galaxy. Therefore, if we have not yet mastered the technological advances necessary for galactic exploration and "colonisation" (as Fermi called it), then why should we expect extraterrestrials to have done so when we have no knowledge of their levels of technological and societal advancement?!

Oh and by the way Illuminattile, thanks for giving me something more interesting to read about on the board, that didn't involve a heap of ass pictures or "photos of girls that you know" - What a crock of shit! Long live WoW!! lol.

 

[Illuminattile]

Ok, I looked up the Drake Equation and found that by his calculations (N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L) there should be about 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way.
And the Fermi Paradox - considering the sheer size and planetary capability of supporting life as well as considering the 10 billion or so years the galaxy has been around, if there were any "super-advanced alien civilizations" in existence, they would have made themselves known by now.

But, I'm still not convinced by the latter argument. I mean "intelligent" life on Earth has only been in existence for a very short time (...and considering some of the conversations that I have had with various people on this board, I question that it even exists now....!), so we have only really just begun to understand the complexities of the galaxy. Therefore, if we have not yet mastered the technological advances necessary for galactic exploration and "colonisation" (as Fermi called it), then why should we expect extraterrestrials to have done so when we have no knowledge of their levels of technological and societal advancement?!

Oh and by the way Illuminattile, thanks for giving me something more interesting to read about on the board, that didn't involve a heap of ass pictures or "photos of girls that you know" - What a crock of shit! Long live WoW!! lol.

One of the other suggested solutions to the Fermi Paradox is that aliens HAVE visited, but that we 'missed them'. That is, unless they turned up in the last 200,000 years we probably wouldn't know about it. Considering the planet formed 4.5 billion years ago, they could very easily have showed up, not found any life and gone back.

My favourite theory, though, is Freeman Dyson's Dyson Sphere idea. I'm not saying it's the theory I subscribe to, but it's a cool theory.

 

[Butt Rubber]

If they are out there, why haven't they contacted us?

we have no way of contacting other civilizations outside of our own solar system, so why would you expect another civilization to be able to contact us?

there are billions of stars with rock planets orbiting around them (and gas planets with rock moons that can support life)

the odds that none of them has ever harbored a civilization as sophisticated as ours is 0.00000000000000000000000000%

 

[Swollen_Member]

What if they've already visited our planet but didn't make it known? It's possible that ET's could have gradually mixed species in with the human race. What better way to learn about our civilization than to actually live in it with out our knowlege..?

 

[Illuminattile]

we have no way of contacting other civilizations outside of our own solar system, so why would you expect another civilization to be able to contact us?

there are billions of stars with rock planets orbiting around them (and gas planets with rock moons that can support life)

the odds that none of them has ever harbored a civilization as sophisticated as ours is 0.00000000000000000000000000%

Of course we do. We send out probes, we send out signals. If we saw a solar system emitting radio waves like ours is, we'd consider it unusual and investigate it. So far SETI hasn't found any. Obviously aliens might not emit radio waves at all, but that's just an example of how they would be able to spot a solar system which looks like it might contain intelligent life.

 

[not really ken]

OK, first of all if there are other lifeforms or whatever out there . then they maybe less intelligent than us but they certainly aren't inferior to us as someone stated, no matter what they look like or what the hell they are. So lets get our psych right, just incase we do come into contact with 'them'.

Amara made a very good point. Considering some of the people that post on this board, I too sometimes doubt as to the existance of intelligent life on earth.
Or maybe ET has visited and the intelligent people are a result of that and these people who are the result of ET visiting ,need to start copulating with people who are still arguing about who has the biggest dick. (for want of a better cliche ).

However, although its good to let the imagination run rampant sometimes, I dont like getting too embroiled in these kinds of issues. Some interesting stuff, but i fear that at the rate we're going at the moment, mass consumer waste which is a phenomena of the 20th century; will reduce the chances of ET wanting to come here significantly and even if he does come, we most likely will not be here to greet him. Which is a shame because ET might have had a nice ass and we could have posted that up in the 'Hot unknown ass thread'

What a crock of shit indeed Amara! :thumb:

 

[Amara]

Which is a shame because ET might have had a nice ass and we could have posted that up in the 'Hot unknown ass thread'

lol! I'm half tempted to find a picture of ET's ass and post it in there now!

One of the other suggested solutions to the Fermi Paradox is that aliens HAVE visited, but that we 'missed them'. That is, unless they turned up in the last 200,000 years we probably wouldn't know about it. Considering the planet formed 4.5 billion years ago, they could very easily have showed up, not found any life and gone back.

Yeah, that sounds like a more credible explanation to me. Although I still have trouble comprehending the notion of there being extraterrestrials at that level of advancement such a long time ago...but that's not to say it can't have happened, instead, it's just difficult for an unscientific person like myself to imagine life beyond this solar system, let alone the goings on billions of years ago!

My favourite theory, though, is Freeman Dyson's Dyson Sphere idea. I'm not saying it's the theory I subscribe to, but it's a cool theory.

That's a scary theory. I'll lay it out for others - " A Dyson Sphere is a gigantic metal habitat built around a sun" ... "A sphere's radius would be equal to the orbital distance of the race's home planet (or an equivelent distance based on the sun's output) so that once the sphere is completed, it will receive an appropriate distribution of energy so that the species can live comfortably on the interior surface." Check out the construction of the spheres... http://users.rcn.com/jasp.javanet/dyson/

The idea of man-made habitats is a little too "Star trek" for me! But then again, considering the inability to maintain environmentally friendly lifestyles and methods of production, when combined with the levels of damage already caused by industrialisation and over-population of the land...it is kind of a relief to think that people are thinking ahead in regards to the continuation of human life.

 

[Butt Rubber]

Of course we do. We send out probes, we send out signals. If we saw a solar system emitting radio waves like ours is, we'd consider it unusual and investigate it. So far SETI hasn't found any. Obviously aliens might not emit radio waves at all, but that's just an example of how they would be able to spot a solar system which looks like it might contain intelligent life.

do you know how many centuries it would take for our radiowaves to reach another solar system? let alone get picked up as well

 

[Rukas]

In my opinion the major problem with all these theories and equations is while they are all about extraterrestial life, or lets call it "other life" for arguments sake, they are still very much all limited by our human earthly existance. They are all theories and equations in relation to what we know.

Why is this a problem? Well humans once knew that the Earth was flat.

The problem is that if we are not cabable of comprehending other forms of life, our equations and best guesses become useless. Its like an ant, with its limited knowledge based in the ant world, trying to comprehend and explain human beings. Its just not possible.

So the only thing all these theories seem to prove right now is that there is no close life form that fits our understanding and can be lableled based apon human understanding. That however does not mean there isnt life on other planets, or even our own planet, which we are just unable to see. If you think this is impossible, remember that there are lots of things around us, waves, particles, etc etc, that we are just unable to see or feel with our limited human senses. But this does not mean that they do not exist.

The same explenation can also be applied to the existance of God, which is why in the first paragraph I said "other life." You have to also consider that their superior technology could be totally different from ours, not based on our physics and hense not recognizable to us.

Basically, we always expect aliens to look different but essentially be the same, in my opinion placeing limitations like that is foolish but at the same time, natrual and ultimatly unavoidable.

 

[Vaudeville]

One of the other suggested solutions to the Fermi Paradox is that aliens HAVE visited, but that we 'missed them'. That is, unless they turned up in the last 200,000 years we probably wouldn't know about it. Considering the planet formed 4.5 billion years ago, they could very easily have showed up, not found any life and gone back.

My favourite theory, though, is Freeman Dyson's Dyson Sphere idea. I'm not saying it's the theory I subscribe to, but it's a cool theory.

that theory about other life visiting but finding nothing seems really interesting, never heard it before, it could be an explanation...they just simply forgot about this place and never looked back. Or maybe intelligent life is far too intelligent for us right now, and maybe we wouldn't be able to comprehend them kind of like the 4th dimension.

 

[Amara]

In my opinion the major problem with all these theories and equations is while they are all about extraterrestial life, or lets call it "other life" for arguments sake, they are still very much all limited by our human earthly existance. They are all theories and equations in relation to what we know.

Why is this a problem? Well humans once knew that the Earth was flat.

The problem is that if we are not cabable of comprehending other forms of life, our equations and best guesses become useless. Its like an ant, with its limited knowledge based in the ant world, trying to comprehend and explain human beings. Its just not possible.

So the only thing all these theories seem to prove right now is that there is no close life form that fits our understanding and can be lableled based apon human understanding. That however does not mean there isnt life on other planets, or even our own planet, which we are just unable to see. If you think this is impossible, remember that there are lots of things around us, waves, particles, etc etc, that we are just unable to see or feel with our limited human senses. But this does not mean that they do not exist.
.

Hmm, I think I see where you are going with this... the way we seek to understand extraterrestrial life is always comparative to our own, when in reality, the two species may not be comparable physically or technologically.

We only have one species of intelligent life upon which to form an understanding of others - our own. Yet, life elsewhere may be completely different in all respects. So we cannot place limitations of the possible existence of extraterrestrials based on our understandings, because really it is our limited capacity of thought and restricted beliefs as to what life composes of, which prevents us from comprehending "other life." Confusing myself now... lol

 

[KAMIKAZI]

there is no way there isn't life anyway besides earth, the Universe is infinite

A probe was just landed on Jupiter's moon Titan, which closely resembles the Earth, and has an atmosphere to thick to see past, and it's only a matter of time b4 we find out if their is life or not, pictures were already sent back

 

[Amara]

there is no way there isn't life anyway besides earth, the Universe is infinite

A probe was just landed on Jupiter's moon Titan, which closely resembles the Earth, and has an atmosphere to thick to see past, and it's only a matter of time b4 we find out if their is life or not, pictures were already sent back

It was Saturn's moon actually and they have retrieved pictures of a riverbed...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6823880/

 

[Geee U Knit]

dude, you gotta know somthing it's all alien mind controll..

They Warp us into beliving they exsist, but make us think there not that smart and cant make it here, when in reality earth to them is a giant piss whole..

i know i asked

 

[Rukas]

i know that whenever alien lifeforms are talked about they are always considered more intelligent and superior to the human race but what if they are not and cant contact us? what if they are waiting for us to contact them? i believe there are other creatures in the universe but are much inferior and not as intelligent as us

Are you also an athiest by any chance?

Two Aussie astronomers discovered last year that there is a "galactic habitable zone" in our Milky Way Galaxy and that our sun is relatively young in comparison to the average star in this zone by about a billion years.
Suggesting that other life forms out there would be older then ours, and hense technologically superior.

 

[not really ken]

there is no way there isn't life anyway besides earth, the Universe is infinite

the universe is not infinite, it is expaniding!

I wonder what it is expanding into, whats on the other side?

 

[Illuminattile]

the universe is not infinite, it is expaniding!

I wonder what it is expanding into, whats on the other side?

That's the kinding of thinking that gives me a headache.

Anyway, the vastness of the universe is one of the things that makes it seem impossible for us to be alone. Like Rukas said, one of the assumptions usually made is that advanced life forms will bare some kind of resemblence to humans, which is not necessarily true.